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Alters' relationships & Kids

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Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Zor » Thu May 17, 2018 3:58 pm

So I've seen a lot of questions and comments about alters having relationships with each other, being related, in love, or even being married as all viable and possible. What about alters having "children"? Would this be just a metaphorical element of the narrative of their life experience? Would these be other unknown alters in a person's system?
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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Efragment » Thu May 17, 2018 7:17 pm

Hi Zor,

Anything's possible in a DID system.

That would be enough of an answer:), but usually young parts are splits that happend during traumatic events; the young part holds the trauma so that the alter where the split/'copy' came from can go on. It happens a lot that systems have parent-like parts for those young parts, but they aren't your children; they are versions of you.
37f

Out: EA(f, ?, host, caretaker), Robin(f, straight, problem fixer), Bart(m, straight, SJW, blunt)

ER(m, asexual, theory, integrity), DV(gf, pansexual, trained)

In: Claire, Peter(informed caretakers), Br(EP's/artists)

DV, 2
Robin, 4
EA, 5
DV, 6
Oliver, 7
ER, 9
DV, 9
EA, 10
ER, 12
Bart, 13
Robin, 18

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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Zor » Fri May 18, 2018 12:55 pm

Efragment wrote:
…usually young parts are splits that happened during traumatic events; the young part holds the trauma so that the alter where the split/'copy' came from can go on. It happens a lot that systems have parent-like parts for those young parts, but they aren't your children; they are versions of you.


So would the children of these alters be splits, new alters in the making (or just formed)?
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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Efragment » Fri May 18, 2018 1:33 pm

The way I see it;

During 'identity forming', before the age of 5-7, the alters form and deal with the trauma. Example; there is physical abuse, and an alter/EP takes the heat while the host/ANP isn't aware and thefore can live the life the person lives. If there are several kinds of abuse, there are several alters who deal with 'their own kind' while the host is the host.

So the alter-forming stops after the age where in normal cases, identity is formed, complete, whole (in our case that did not happen. EP's (in most systems, the EP's are the 'children') are the emotions that would have integrated in the whole personality, for example. In a DID system, they are 'loose'). The alters who deal with the abuse, can only take so much, so if the abuse keeps on happening, the alters split up to 'share/devide the trauma's'.

The 'children', stay at that age because there was a big trauma; they hold that trauma and the alter they split from, keeps on developing/aging.
37f

Out: EA(f, ?, host, caretaker), Robin(f, straight, problem fixer), Bart(m, straight, SJW, blunt)

ER(m, asexual, theory, integrity), DV(gf, pansexual, trained)

In: Claire, Peter(informed caretakers), Br(EP's/artists)

DV, 2
Robin, 4
EA, 5
DV, 6
Oliver, 7
ER, 9
DV, 9
EA, 10
ER, 12
Bart, 13
Robin, 18

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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby VioletFlux » Fri May 18, 2018 2:16 pm

I would offer an alternative or complementary theory to this.

My understanding is that once the mind 'knows how' to use dissociation and dissociated identities as a tool, it can continue to do so at any age.

For example I am quite positive I was created from a split when we were at physical age 44. Our previous host went through something fairly traumatic and stressful and was faced with a predicament that she was unable to solve, and the stress on her mind was enough that I came into being.

I'll also add that not all parts, child or otherwise, carry trauma. Some are created for the opposite reason, eg. to be kept safe or isolated from the trauma. We're pretty sure V2 split around age 16 and was kept 'safe inside' as our happy optomistic trauma-free teenager, while the host at that time had to deal with the unpleasant stuff happening in the outside world.

On the topic at hand, I honestly don't know if two parts on the inside can have a relationship that results in a new child part. But given that the internal worlds in DID systems are based on dream-logic or trance-logic, I don't think it's impossible. I think there's too many variables and too many unique, individual factors, from one system to another, to know for sure.

Or I guess put it another way, yes I think it's probably possible, for some systems, in some situations?

-Violet (1)
Violet aka V1 (22, host); Violet aka V2 (16, 2nd host); Rebecca (∞, internal helper);
Mike (35, protector); Charlie / Charles-Henry (12/24, persecutor);
Melissa (7); Arin (6); Stephanie (previous host, dormant); et al. Body: 48f;
Dx: DID; previously depression, bipolar.
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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Efragment » Fri May 18, 2018 2:22 pm

VioletFlux wrote:I would offer an alternative or complementary theory to this.

My understanding is that once the mind 'knows how' to use dissociation and dissociated identities as a tool, it can continue to do so at any age.

For example I am quite positive I was created from a split when we were at physical age 44. Our previous host went through something fairly traumatic and stressful and was faced with a predicament that she was unable to solve, and the stress on her mind was enough that I came into being.

I'll also add that not all parts, child or otherwise, carry trauma. Some are created for the opposite reason, eg. to be kept safe or isolated from the trauma. We're pretty sure V2 split around age 16 and was kept 'safe inside' as our happy optomistic trauma-free teenager, while the host at that time had to deal with the unpleasant stuff happening in the outside world.

On the topic at hand, I honestly don't know if two parts on the inside can have a relationship that results in a new child part. But given that the internal worlds in DID systems are based on dream-logic or trance-logic, I don't think it's impossible. I think there's too many variables and too many unique, individual factors, from one system to another, to know for sure.

Or I guess put it another way, yes I think it's probably possible, for some systems, in some situations?

-Violet (1)


Agree, it still happens with trauma, the splitting. It's thé coping mechanism of an already existing system that hasn't integrated. But I am almost certain that the splitting happens from formed parts befóre the identity was integrated before the age of 7 (that's why you also have parts who have the same name?). The splits come from those parts and aren't totally néw identities.
37f

Out: EA(f, ?, host, caretaker), Robin(f, straight, problem fixer), Bart(m, straight, SJW, blunt)

ER(m, asexual, theory, integrity), DV(gf, pansexual, trained)

In: Claire, Peter(informed caretakers), Br(EP's/artists)

DV, 2
Robin, 4
EA, 5
DV, 6
Oliver, 7
ER, 9
DV, 9
EA, 10
ER, 12
Bart, 13
Robin, 18

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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby VioletFlux » Fri May 18, 2018 3:53 pm

Efragment wrote:Agree, it still happens with trauma, the splitting. It's thé coping mechanism of an already existing system that hasn't integrated. But I am almost certain that the splitting happens from formed parts befóre the identity was integrated before the age of 7 (that's why you also have parts who have the same name?). The splits come from those parts and aren't totally néw identities.

I honestly don't know enough to say whether or not a new alter could be created 'from nothing' at a later age, as opposed to being split from an existing one. I do kinda believe it's possible, but I don't really know.

It may be just semantics, like the difference being whether or not the new part inheirits any traits or memories from its source? Like if a new part starts with no memories or whatever, then it doesn't really matter whether they've split from another part, or come into existance anew.

w/r/t names, I know I split from our previous host, but I didn't take or share a name with her. V2 and I share a name but she didn't split from me or vice versa. Based on what we know/believe, V2 predates me by decades in terms of when she split (and we're not sure who she split from). But I came out front before her. Previous host named me Violet, and when V2 awoke / emerged I was the new host, so she adopted the name for herself too. Complicated stuff! lol.

Still, I just think there's so much variety, so many variables, and everyone's system is so complex and unique, that I do think it's possible for new parts to come into existance.

-Violet (1)
Violet aka V1 (22, host); Violet aka V2 (16, 2nd host); Rebecca (∞, internal helper);
Mike (35, protector); Charlie / Charles-Henry (12/24, persecutor);
Melissa (7); Arin (6); Stephanie (previous host, dormant); et al. Body: 48f;
Dx: DID; previously depression, bipolar.
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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Efragment » Fri May 18, 2018 4:13 pm

VioletFlux wrote:
It may be just semantics, like the difference being whether or not the new part inheirits any traits or memories from its source? Like if a new part starts with no memories or whatever, then it doesn't really matter whether they've split from another part, or come into existance anew.


Interesting. Thank you. In the end all parts are from one person, ofcourse. This also makes me think about nature versus nurture again. If a part has no (shared) memories, it could also be a part without the 'results' of nurture; no bad 'habits' from the abusers, no traits from just hanging around a lot with the same people in your life; just the genes and work from there. If it would be possible to 'choose' such a part from the minute awareness and healing starts, and integrate only healthy traits from the others, I'd do that! Not because of a scary 'ubermensch' desire, but because it is so unfair to have to fix damage done by others and not by ourselves.

VioletFlux wrote:Still, I just think there's so much variety, so many variables, and everyone's system is so complex and unique, that I do think it's possible for new parts to come into existance.

-Violet (1)


Yes.:) Anything's possible.
37f

Out: EA(f, ?, host, caretaker), Robin(f, straight, problem fixer), Bart(m, straight, SJW, blunt)

ER(m, asexual, theory, integrity), DV(gf, pansexual, trained)

In: Claire, Peter(informed caretakers), Br(EP's/artists)

DV, 2
Robin, 4
EA, 5
DV, 6
Oliver, 7
ER, 9
DV, 9
EA, 10
ER, 12
Bart, 13
Robin, 18

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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby NyxX » Fri May 18, 2018 9:46 pm

I can't remember where I was reading it or I'd link it,but I was reading about one of the studies done on DID and they theorized that because trauma began at an age where children often have imaginary friends that alters were initially created by projecting memories and experiences onto imaginary friends. So if that is a potential then alters aren't necessarily always splits but constructs given life. And if alters can be constructed rather then always be splits then it would be possible for alters to create kids.
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Re: Alters' relationships & Kids

Postby Zor » Sat May 19, 2018 12:27 pm

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. :)
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