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keep on keeping on

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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby sleepingwolf » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:02 pm

We just wanted to say that we've read your posts and we hear you and wish you all the very best. We relate to a lot of the feelings and challenges, it sounds like you are being positive and making good progress too.

Wishing you all the very best with the day and planning days to come.


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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:22 am

thank you Iain. we appreciate it.

we are reflecting a lot about respect. Places where we were respected, others were we were not.
a LOT of pain about the mother is coming up. no wonder, since that is the primary transference with the T and last session was so obviously different, when she showed true respect for what we are good at and what we know. some younger parts we can't identify yet share a lot of feelings of neediness when it comes to interpersonal warmth. a need for recognition of their needs. being taken seriously. and a need for a warm response.
it is all mixed with memories of role reversal. some of it so plainly abusive but we never realized that it wasn't normal to be treated that way. so much humiliation for so many year, into adulthood. we are starting to realize that a loving person wouldn't do that to their child.
the pain mixes with more recent mistreatment.
I try to remember what it felt like in the good trauma clinic. we were treated like we are made of gold there. highest levels of respect. we had such a special status, as a favored of one of the highest ranking therapists, and all the nurses knew and treated us like we are under the special protection of someone influential.
that and the way our T talked with us last session is such a stark contrast to pretty much everything we had experienced in our life before.

our Littles were pushed early on not to attach to outside people. but they do have some feelings. with the clinic T it is a feeling a being protected and safe. in a little bit fatherly way, but in a warm and satisfied way. no attachment cry. it feels ok.
now I wonder what we will make of our T if she keeps going into that direction. she crashes directly into our expectation of abuse by females. nothing nurturing expected. not even basic respect is expected.

I am curious how this will develop. it brought up some serious pain and memories of neglect. I hope we can integrate it.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:08 am

birdsong87 wrote:now I wonder what we will make of our T if she keeps going into that direction. she crashes directly into our expectation of abuse by females. nothing nurturing expected. not even basic respect is expected.

I am curious how this will develop. it brought up some serious pain and memories of neglect. I hope we can integrate it.


This sounds a bit like the sequence we go through with our T. Being treated well and cared about feels good, but then immediately brings up the pain of not having had that in our childhood, and the protective reflex of "we don't deserve to be treated so well," which then cuts us off from that good feeling until we reconnect with the T and the cycle starts again.

The only thing I can say is that gradually we've been able to accept and to hold onto that good feeling for longer and longer periods of time, which makes the pain happen for shorter periods so it's less overwhelming.

Also, as we become better able to maintain and to trust the connection with the T, we're starting to be able to share painful memories with him, because we won't be left alone with them later--we'll have his response and his feelings with us also.

Anyway, that's what your description of the current process with your T made me think of.
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:03 am

we have a lot less emotional responses to our Ts behavior than you seem to have. mostly the Littles don't see her as someone they could connect with. I was a bit relieved to read that this is a thing, with rather intense neglect. there isn't even a concept of motherly care because it never formed. at least for some of us this seems to be the case. a lot of neediness is combined with a sense of utter alone-ness and zero expectation for change. it just is that way.

I think we went a step further with realization but I am afraid that I lack the ability to hold on to that realization. I really have to struggle to keep it real. I think I realized that the task of hiding from the mother is over. we reached our goal. we protected a lot of important things from destruction by her. Today that whole action isn't needed anymore. a lot of our troubles with females and female Ts is that we keep on hiding what is important. I have a glimpse of understanding that that's not needed anymore, that the time of hiding is over. it means realizing that females in our life are not the mother, which is surprisingly difficult. we get drawn back into that a lot.

we have been reflecting a lot on the things we know about the mothers life. turns out that we have very little respect for her. maybe a survivors respect that she survived her mother somehow. that is where it ends. We have never felt so much contempt before but it is there. It is what moved me to the place of not wanting anything from her influence our life anymore. it reminds me of the man in the arena speech. We only take critique from those who fight in the arena themselves. the mother has always avoided responsibility for her life. We will not receive her judgment about how we take responsibility of ours.
I want the experience integrated, as something we can look back on as a phase in our life, that shaped some decisions and some of the way but that doesn't define us forever. I want us not to stay stuck in the old actions we used to protect us from her. that is why it feels so crucial that we realize that the other women in our life are not the mother.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
Our blog on resources https://www.dis-sos.com
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby IainEtc » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:27 am

Keep going birdsong. We are all thinking about you.

Iain Cody Colin Evan
Iain - 14, Colin - 17, Evan - 7, Cody - 16, Raven, & Host - the adult out front

When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:04 pm

there is so much about our upbringing that doesn't make sense. double standards. highest demands on the kids, but the adults never even tried. Our T has us write down the rules within the family and even before starting the homework we know that the mother never did a fragment of what she demanded from us.
setting an inner boundary with the mother and what belongs to her as a person, separating internally, triggers unexpected things. Like a memory where we felt responsible for her survival and if we didn't take care of her we would lose her. so we have some anxiety like that after all...
I also think that I am seeing signs of attachment cry, but in a totally different way than it is usually described. we move toward action systems of care-taking. there is an automatic role reversal. attachement is identical to care-taking for some of us. So when we fear a loss of attachment we don't slip into the all needy cry that says that we can't live without them. We despair that they can't live without us, just like when we were so scared the mother would die if we don't take care of her.
The T pointed out that what we remember was a typical crisis situation where the mother would have needed inpatient treatment for stabilization. we somehow were unaware of that. we thought it was our job to get her through.
there is a lot of partial realizations. it takes so many reality checks. we are getting somewhere. but it messes with the whole system too and there is a lot to balance.
Danielle is struggling because she feels like an inner separation from the mother would kill her. she is still stuck in the place when we sat at her bed, begging her to eat. leaving would mean leaving her to die. so no wonder she is trying to keep us from proceeding. sometimes you think someone was well oriented only to realize that in specific areas they are not.

we are still struggling with the question of guilt. whose fault was it, that there was this huge role reversal? we grabbed some of the adult tasks and I remember that we did them with a certain pleasure when we were younger. it was the disrespect and humilitation that made it painful later. but at around age 8-12 we enjoyed taking adult tasks from the mother. the T tries to explain that this is normal and also that the wish to create a nice home around us is normal. that kids set up their dolls and 'cook' for them. it seems like this will be a bigger challenge to realize. we still think that it was at least halfway our fault because we wanted it and liked it.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
Our blog on resources https://www.dis-sos.com
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:53 am

the past few days have been rough and we get a deep sense of what 'integrative capacity' means.
While we manage to integrate some important aspects of our teen years function dropped, all capacity used up for processing. we had a couple of days when we ate little and randomly, forgot to drink etc.

we managed to link 2 different scenes with Danielle. One of sitting at the mothers bed begging her to eat, with a deep cold fear that she will die if she doesn't, at about age 12 and then repeated scenes when the mother announced that she will kill herself, then took the car and vanished for 4-6 hours while we sat at home praying, similar fear of death. this has been traumatic and we can finally see and acknowledge that. it was good to create a bit of a timeline. first there was the sitting beside the bed, then following years there was the driving away, not it is 20 years later.
it feels like trauma processing, even though we don't use any special tools.
we see a lot of the elements we are currently writing about for the blog, which feels good.

today we seem to have better balance and I hope to be able to get some work done.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
Our blog on resources https://www.dis-sos.com
birdsong87
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:45 pm

birdsong87 wrote:While we manage to integrate some important aspects of our teen years function dropped, all capacity used up for processing. we had a couple of days when we ate little and randomly, forgot to drink etc.


This is a good point for us to remember about accepting that there is a limited amount of energy, and if we're using it to handle something that's going on in therapy, we just won't be as productive or functional in the rest of our life. Some of us think we shouldn't "let" that happen, as if we should just have unlimited capacity--or as if emotional processing shouldn't "count" as using up energy. :roll:
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:26 pm

it is damn hard work. harder than anything else. I had to get us take-out twice cause it couldn't be helped.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
Our blog on resources https://www.dis-sos.com
birdsong87
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Re: keep on keeping on

Postby birdsong87 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:00 am

insomnia is driving me nuts. we either sleep for 3 hour-chunks at random times of the day, or not at all, or for 10 hours and then we are still exhausted... and it is never the same pattern. so after a day of sleeping 3 hours twice it is a night of not sleeping til after sunrise... I am too old for this $#%^

the other week Asti had another shame attack. again, it was about being seen and presenting something that she is good at/honestly likes doing. When the facial pain got too bad we tried the exercise the bodywork T taught us, about adding sound to the emotion. to all our surprise what showed up was a 'I AM NOT HOW YOU WANT ME TO BE' in our journal. You being the mother/grandmother. it was the first time that any of her shame attacks had an actual 'you' in them. before it was all about how bad, weird, etc she is without including a second person. a HUGE progress. especially since shame is a social emotion that needs a second person.

we talked about it with the T, and how much what we allow to be seen is controlled by the expectation and demands of others. How fixed the ideas about being a proper person were at home, how high the demands, but in very specific ways. our homework is to learn to tell apart what We really want and like and how We want to be, differentiated from what the mother wanted us to be. It is incredibly tricky work. we grew up with these ideas of what makes a 'good' person and it is extremely hard to tell if we believe it because we want to, because we are convinced, or if it is just the beliefs we were raised with.
it reminds me of teens who were raised in the church but eventually have to make up their mind if this really is what they want for their life. it goes down to the level of core beliefs about the world and self.

we have seen some incredible progress lately. but it does use up a lot of capacity. I want our sleep back. we need all the energy we can get. it is back to birdsong outside while I wait for the sun to rise. this is such an anxient pattern for us... we just don't have the youth to get us through anymore.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
Our blog on resources https://www.dis-sos.com
birdsong87
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