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Alter who socializes

Postby Johnny-Jack » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:12 am

I've been feeling for weeks now that who I know as "I" may not be the one who does some of the social interactions. I can be vapid and zonked out or really depressed and if I suddenly encounter someone I need to do some "my" normal socializing with, I will in a flash deal with that person perfectly, calmly, with just the right jokes. When it's over I have immediately reactive thought like "wow, where did that comes from?" Or "how did I do that?" In fact, it's not really necessary. We could afford to be out of it and non-responsive to people sometimes. It feels so automatic and not genuine, not in the moment.

Sometimes my immediate reaction is negative like "you big phoney, you say just what you need to connect, make a comment, get a chuckle, and close the conversation smoothly." I feel disconnected with what I just did. It's not another alter I already know about. I know their body language and Sphinx can accurately identify who was just in the body, if they've already become known. It feels like me. But I've had a greater and greater sense that this may be the largest independent alter and none of us have actually noticed, including him, if he's not me. Or maybe he's not one more alter at all, it's me.

I'm having bouts of depersonalization and derealization, which are rare for me. Am I me? What does "me" even refer to? Sometimes I connect lightly to my name, other times it doesn't feel right at all, it's not my name. And I desperately feel myself wanting to escape, others here do too. If I could push a button and I'd be gone, temporarily or permanently, I would do it. Therapy is getting more intense so things becoming more unstable isn't a surprise. Does any of this ring a bell for anyone?
Dx=DID: 74 of us. John, Johnny, Ryder hosts. Sphinx. Gwendolyn 50s. Marc-Dominic, Aaron, Gaul 40s. Jonathan 33. Neville 20. Quato 19. Kyle 16. Ulric, Calvin, Daniel 15. Faolán 14. Hoyt, Cam, Cully, Flynn, Tuck, Abel, Eberly, Will, Gordon, Pehr, Mick/Mxyzptlk 13. Nigel 12. Orval, Jack 11. Abraham, Zane, Ty, Randy 10. Brody 9. Sky, Yanni, Vince, Luke, Hank, Xavi 8. Cole, Matt, Chase 7. Andre, Godwin, Greg, Carter, Estes, Seamus 6. Michael, Caleb, Inky, Kent 5. Casper, Bartholomew, Raisin Annie, Scott, Hansel & Johann, Wats 4. Pip, Max, Little John 3. Erik, Carl, Sheldon, Alvin, Ashár, Henry 2. Edward, Clark, Zeb 1. Adam <1
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby Nondescript » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:08 am

I almost posted this exact same thing a few days ago. Oh, wait, I did post about it. But what I was talking about was a part or parts of me that do exactly what you do in social situations. I have always had this. I could be feeling terrible and out of it and have any number of problems, and all I have to do is get in a social situation and I will "snap to" how I need to act. I notice two variations, a more sophisticated and gracious one, and one who is more teenagery and (searching for the word in English) working class.

I have always noticed this about myself. I am under the impression that everyone has this to some degree, their public face. I don't know what it feels like for others, though.

When it's over I have immediately reactive thought like "wow, where did that comes from?" Or "how did I do that?" In fact, it's not really necessary. We could afford to be out of it and non-responsive to people sometimes. It feels so automatic and not genuine, not in the moment.

Yes, exactly. I don't know if I'm just being fake or not. I remember when I met my husband and I had to meet his friends, I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to relate to them. (He and his friends were uber-educated, I had my GED.) On the way to an event, I would fret over what to say and try to come up with topics to discuss, but I'd never use them, which sometimes frustrated me, after all my efforts. I'd arrive and I'd seem totally at home, and would thrive and everybody would seem to love me. Then I'd get back in the car and feel freaked out and anxious about the social experience that had just happened. My husband has always marveled at this, and uses it as an excuse to let me handle difficult social situations or telephone conversations.

I'm having bouts of depersonalization and derealization, which are rare for me. Am I me? What does "me" even refer to? Sometimes I connect lightly to my name, other times it doesn't feel right at all, it's not my name. And I desperately feel myself wanting to escape, others here do too. If I could push a button and I'd be gone, temporarily or permanently, I would do it.

This is how I feel so much of the time since I realized I have this condition. It is making learning about myself very difficult.

But I've had a greater and greater sense that this may be the largest independent alter and none of us have actually noticed, including him, if he's not me. Or maybe he's not one more alter at all, it's me.
Thank you for writing this. Tonight my husband ID'd three alters in one conversation. I guess I don't know what they think, but I sense (or just imagine) that one of them is not aware of itself as separate from me, and until tonight I had never "seen" that one from the outside. I wasn't sure how possible that is, that we would think we're the same person, but we are different? Having "seen" that one in action, I got an image of him. I can never believe that they have their own thoughts, and tend to imagine them as empty facades of me. I'm still not sure how it works. Maybe my "we" is just one big, empty facade. Sorry for rambling, but I really appreciate your post.

I hope you get some more insightful answers.
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby TheCollective » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:15 am

I could have written this almost word for word, except I don't have meaningful therapy. I wish I had some good advice but even after all these years it's still a mystery. I think it's very uncomfortable and really very annoying that I just can't seem to recognize or control it. Sometimes I really should be like this but I am not, and other times I don't have to be but I involuntarily am and both cause distress. I've been struggling a lot with this lately, specifically in social situations.

In the past I've discovered alters who are this big and who were active but unnoticed for years so I know that it is very well possible. I think we can't really force it. I was looking for alters for a while but even though I did, I couldn't find them or was able to properly identify what/who I felt until the time was right.

Since you've been suffering increased dp/dr it might very well just be you. dp/dr may even be why you can't figure it out. But it's also true that dp/dr always increases for me when a new alter is about to break through. It could also be caused by the more intense therapy or just the time of the year or any change in life.

I hope the dp/dr will lighten up soon. I have to say I know the feelings you describe very well. If therapy is causing this you should discuss it. Well you might want to do that anyway. For me the problem is that grounding techniques don't work at times like these, if I even remember to use them. I know that I want to run away from everything and escape life at times like these, but that is by far not the smartest thing to do at that moment. If I do, it might take a long time before I get back to earth. Routine and a sense of normalcy are important to hold on to.
Anyway lots of words to say I think I know what you're going through and I hope it passes soon.
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby Johnny-Jack » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:55 am

My post actually triggered me for a few days. Maybe it was just it scared me. What if I'm not me?

Thank so much nondescript and TheCollective. I figured I was posting some really weird thing and both understood and added to the ideas.

I've come to the realization that these two parts are at least distinct ego states, but as TheCollective said, the depersonalization could be the source of my disconnection. The two sides are way too different and consistent within themselves to be one state yet I can't say we're separate enough to be alters. Neither of us claims a different name but we don't really claim our alter name either,unless we're John and Johnny. Now I've noticed that virtually everyone who's spent any amount of time in the body has their own grouping of characteristics that are them but that doesn't mean they're static. Inky is generally nervous, afraid and confused. But he can have good spans of time too where he's drawn into something and he seems to have a broader sense of choice then.

In one state I am confused, fearful, relentlessly negative with lots of justification for the negativity and generally hopeless. I have a hard time expressing myself and generally fall short. In another state I'm self-confident, and explain what I'm thinking and feeling in a way that gets through to people. I'm totally in the moment, in flow. No matter what mess I'm actually in, I feel on top of my game and able to prevail. I like being this guy a LOT. Other like him too.

I can't stay him, though, I inevitably slip back, into the insecure, self-questioning weaker wiped-out self. Sometimes quickly, sometimes immediately. The skilled part is inevitably linked to other people, is at ease with them, seeks out crowds. He's either with people or working on something in his head that involves people. The weaker me is more a loner, feels mostly useless and a burden, is fearful others couldn't really like him because after all he's a hoax, knowing they'll all catch on eventually. He's lazy because he's given up and either smug about or resigned to his defeat. Or he's obsessive so he doesn't have to think.

Like nondescript, I kind of don't know how I'd get through life without the social abilities, but sometimes I wish I could be more there to enjoy them.
Dx=DID: 74 of us. John, Johnny, Ryder hosts. Sphinx. Gwendolyn 50s. Marc-Dominic, Aaron, Gaul 40s. Jonathan 33. Neville 20. Quato 19. Kyle 16. Ulric, Calvin, Daniel 15. Faolán 14. Hoyt, Cam, Cully, Flynn, Tuck, Abel, Eberly, Will, Gordon, Pehr, Mick/Mxyzptlk 13. Nigel 12. Orval, Jack 11. Abraham, Zane, Ty, Randy 10. Brody 9. Sky, Yanni, Vince, Luke, Hank, Xavi 8. Cole, Matt, Chase 7. Andre, Godwin, Greg, Carter, Estes, Seamus 6. Michael, Caleb, Inky, Kent 5. Casper, Bartholomew, Raisin Annie, Scott, Hansel & Johann, Wats 4. Pip, Max, Little John 3. Erik, Carl, Sheldon, Alvin, Ashár, Henry 2. Edward, Clark, Zeb 1. Adam <1
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby TheCollective » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:40 am

It has me too confused to answer properly. Just want to say that Eric has exactly the same stuff. It could be a hidden strong alter, it could be the result of Chris and Eric growing closer, or it could be the result of weaker alters influencing Eric. It could be the result of a split in process. We don't know.


We used to have the same stuff with Jenni and Jennifer too.
I don't know if this is true, but they claim that they were one alter at one point and that now they're not. They claim that they split up to alleviate Jennifer's depression. But it took ages for them to admit that they are not one even though they differ 12 years (14 and 26) in age and are also considerably different people.
We were wondering if it could be true for you that John and Johnny are in the process of splitting up right now?
Does sphinx think that there any more hidden alters in your system?
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby SarahBeth » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:27 pm

Without a formal diagnosis, I hate to even talk about it like it's real, but for this post's sake, I'm going to hash out what happens with my social interacting.

I've always talked with different voices. Jesus this is hard to get out. Anyway, yeah, I've always thought I was just one of those 'haha she talks in weird voices' kind of people. But idk dude. Hell, lemme just bullet point this ish.

- the voice that sounds like a little kid. This comes out when I'm around older people and I have to be nice to them. When whomever I'm talking to can't see my face, I've been told I sound like a little girl. I have feelings associated with this one. Lighter, not as dark, not as full. Blue skies and clouds. Very appeasing.

- Super polite and genteel voice - sounds similar to my little kid one. It goes back and forth depending on who I'm talking to. This one sounds like the other one, but has a little more pizazz. Like, oh, bless your heart! I can't believe you fell and broke your foot! Goodness gracious, that's some rotten luck! Well what did the doctor do? And as I write that, the voice says it as I write it and sounds just like what I would say out loud? Does this make sense? It's almost like I channel it

- the one with a super pronounced southern accent. Comes off as scrappy and hickish. Over use of metaphors. Will offer to slash tires.

-the one who sounds like Brian from family guy. Always has a punchline, pretty much jazz hands right through conversation, funny, witty, confident, smiling, laughing - constantly amused, down for the party, extroverted, fearless - but seriously, I sound just like Brian from family guy

- the really monotone, dry, dry, dry, blunt and sarcastic. The one who doesn't give a f*ck. But doesn't not give a f*ck like the crazy one below. Mean, but only on the outside. Exasperated with some interaction depending on what it is, not very social. Confrontational. The one who stands when people say don't get up. If I had to classify, I'd say protective. I remember this one from 6th grade. This one gets stuff done too, oh, jeeze, sorry, this is the first time I've ever written about these guys. Sometimes I start meandering. This writing stuff really does help. Huh. Anyway, I hear this one's voice the most. And it comes out of me the most.

- the crazy one that hisses, but I've never talked in that voice. I've only heard it in my head, and only once. the monotone one sort of knocked it away. If I do have this disorder, then this one comes out when I'm beyond stressed, and does really screwed up things. Like, watch the world burn stuff. This one truly doesn't give a f*ck but in a destructive way.

- Me. I talk like I normally talk. People have asked me if I was born in the south because it doesn't sound like I have a southern accent. And I've been asked this by ten thousand people over ten thousand years. seriously. so many times. Enough that I got righteously mad like, screw you guys! I freaking grew up on 412! And I'm just me. I'm just here.

So yeah, I'm going to stop now.
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby INEEDTHISS » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:32 am

Johnny-Jack wrote:I've been feeling for weeks now that who I know as "I" may not be the one who does some of the social interactions. I can be vapid and zonked out or really depressed and if I suddenly encounter someone I need to do some "my" normal socializing with, I will in a flash deal with that person perfectly, calmly, with just the right jokes. When it's over I have immediately reactive thought like "wow, where did that comes from?" Or "how did I do that?" In fact, it's not really necessary. We could afford to be out of it and non-responsive to people sometimes. It feels so automatic and not genuine, not in the moment.

Sometimes my immediate reaction is negative like "you big phoney, you say just what you need to connect, make a comment, get a chuckle, and close the conversation smoothly." I feel disconnected with what I just did. It's not another alter I already know about. I know their body language and Sphinx can accurately identify who was just in the body, if they've already become known. It feels like me. But I've had a greater and greater sense that this may be the largest independent alter and none of us have actually noticed, including him, if he's not me. Or maybe he's not one more alter at all, it's me.

I'm having bouts of depersonalization and derealization, which are rare for me. Am I me? What does "me" even refer to? Sometimes I connect lightly to my name, other times it doesn't feel right at all, it's not my name. And I desperately feel myself wanting to escape, others here do too. If I could push a button and I'd be gone, temporarily or permanently, I would do it. Therapy is getting more intense so things becoming more unstable isn't a surprise. Does any of this ring a bell for anyone?




This is all too familiar. What gets me is when I enter a store with anxiety I start to feel antisocial. i say to myself no eye contact. Than bc i'm pretty i do get unwanted attention. i ignore the stares than i get someone who goes out of there way to say hi. i don't want to respond so i say to myself pretend not to hear. suddenly i hear myself say hi automatically and the voice that answers hi isn't even mine and I'm like wow who is this person for heaven's sake.
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby MultipleMinds » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:05 pm

We could have written this ourselves. It hits very close home so to say. It seems to happen alot and we suspect its another system-member and possibly more then 1 involved in it at times, or each time its someone else, i dont know. Like, i dont want to hang out, and suddenly the body stands up, and we are hanging out, jokes are made, talking goes smooth or not at all, someone else seems to observe when were with friends. We wonder if we switch and we seem to do so. Mostly cant remember much of said activity and there are many "blank spots"or "gaps".
We are with many. How many is unknown.
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby Johnny-Jack » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:00 am

This has been a destabilizing process but most signs now point to at least two hosts who have interacted so smoothly and switched so silently that we both (if there are just two of us and not more) haven't made the distinction between us.

We're labeling ourselves John (somber) and Johnny (social) for now. Since we forgot about the details of this post, the fact that we came up with some of the same conclusions again, but with more certainty, tends to confirm the find.

A big clue came last week when I entered therapy feeling depleted and defeated. My therapist, with whom I felt sure I had interacted before, said I seemed different from the previous visit and wondered who I was. I said I was the host but I noticed my energy was much lower, my approach was generally defeatist and hopeless. I felt like I was the host but I couldn't call myself Johnny, and I had to wonder then what my name was. I knew it wasn't anything exotic and only John felt right.

This week I asked the therapist about her observation. I found myself wanting to talk about recent visits as involving "him" rather than "me." I wanted to use "we" instead of "I" when talking about our system, as the non-host alters do. As I spoke I could tell someone was getting tired of my down attitude.

Then our mood and energy changed noticeably and I believe he (Johnny) was fronting because he started talking about me as feeling distinct from him, he didn't think that had been him just talking. He wasn't any more comfortable with this sudden awareness of difference either. The therapist said our voice sounded different. He asked her if he usually used I or we when talking and she said we use I.

I think this was the first time Johnny and I (John) saw we seem to be different alters yet both hosts. We're trying to identify the differences, at least I am.

Now we're really not sure who has been posting here before. Maybe half and half, maybe mostly him, or mostly me.

This has been so unsettling, it's taken me a few days to write all this, to even describe what's going on. When we first started pondering whether there might be more than one of us co-hosting, we heard the phrase that some information might "tear a hole in the fabric of our reality" -- which did not sound good. I mean we've had enough identity confusion day to day and while finding over two dozen alters without having to consider the possibility that we are not just a single host alter. At least that bit of information felt rock solid. It begs the question "how could I not know I'm multiple?" all over again.

But if we are two hosts who switch as needed, maybe more than two hosts, we're just going to have to accept it and move forward. Anything else is folly. It will certainly be easier if we can identify where, okay who, all these different "moods" are coming from, otherwise they'll continue to confuse and control our behavior.

If I'm the down part of our host-pair or host-group, if I'm the one who feels like a loser, who gives up more easily, who feels pretty hopeless, who chooses boredom over risks because it's safer, we need to know this and figure out how and when it all happened. We can guess why it happened already. Given his skills and energy, I think we need to empower Johnny more. Unless he has his own problems, which seems a given. Then we'll have to figure out how to take advantage of both our skills, at least in the hosting arena.

John
Dx=DID: 74 of us. John, Johnny, Ryder hosts. Sphinx. Gwendolyn 50s. Marc-Dominic, Aaron, Gaul 40s. Jonathan 33. Neville 20. Quato 19. Kyle 16. Ulric, Calvin, Daniel 15. Faolán 14. Hoyt, Cam, Cully, Flynn, Tuck, Abel, Eberly, Will, Gordon, Pehr, Mick/Mxyzptlk 13. Nigel 12. Orval, Jack 11. Abraham, Zane, Ty, Randy 10. Brody 9. Sky, Yanni, Vince, Luke, Hank, Xavi 8. Cole, Matt, Chase 7. Andre, Godwin, Greg, Carter, Estes, Seamus 6. Michael, Caleb, Inky, Kent 5. Casper, Bartholomew, Raisin Annie, Scott, Hansel & Johann, Wats 4. Pip, Max, Little John 3. Erik, Carl, Sheldon, Alvin, Ashár, Henry 2. Edward, Clark, Zeb 1. Adam <1
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Re: Alter who socializes

Postby TheCollective » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:34 pm

I don't really have anything useful to say, but just wanted to thank you for keeping us updated cause we were wondering. I'm sorry things are so hard.
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