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Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby CrackedGirl » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:33 pm

Hi

I grew up on a religious compound in Africa where some of the beliefs I remember coming across were on the wackier end of Christianity tho I believed them at the time - I was a kid and they were adults. I also when older dabbled with very charismatic churches who also have pretty strict and unforgiving beliefs. I found my current lefty liberal, middle of the road Anglican Church with a great vicar and a lot of opportunity to explore and question my faith. I have talked to my vicar a lot and also done courses I have been offered to explore faith. This has helped me a lot to deal with beliefs which are a hangover from my childhood. Might help?

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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby elanordes » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:41 am

CrackedGirl wrote:Hi

I grew up on a religious compound in Africa where some of the beliefs I remember coming across were on the wackier end of Christianity tho I believed them at the time - I was a kid and they were adults. I also when older dabbled with very charismatic churches who also have pretty strict and unforgiving beliefs. I found my current lefty liberal, middle of the road Anglican Church with a great vicar and a lot of opportunity to explore and question my faith. I have talked to my vicar a lot and also done courses I have been offered to explore faith. This has helped me a lot to deal with beliefs which are a hangover from my childhood. Might help?

Cracked


Yeah, that does sound like something that might work for me. :]

Thank you!
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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby CrackedGirl » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:26 am

Def worth looking into and i really do recommend talking to your vicar if you like them

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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby Nanashi » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:35 pm

I think you have the right attitude towards practicing your faith. It has always been the case that traditions held in churches are usually man-made rather than from the Bible itself. I do believe you have a spirit of discernment and be sure never to lose that. It will indeed help you in your walk. One thing I will tell you is that you need not fear Hell, at least the place of damnation that is meant for eternal punishment. I will tell you why and you can look this up yourself to confirm. That is Greek mythology that entered the Christian faith through Catholicism. It was a scare tactic devised to frighten people back into church, because if they did not attend, they were supposedly damned. It was all done for their money.
What the Bible does say is this: the world "hell" translates into "hades" in the Greek, but in the Ancient Hebrew it is "sheol" Sheol does not mean what the Greek word inferred. It means death or the grave. Those verses are talking about dying. You can be sure of this because the Bible says His faithful sleep until the resurrection. It also says "the dead know nothing." This also implies we do not go directly to heaven when we die, but wait until the second coming.
There is hellfire mentioned, but that is punishment for the wicked and it does not last for eternity, rather they are burned up. The word "forever" in the Bible does not mean eternally. They are actually different if you look them up. Forever or "for ever" means fore a certain period of time or until a certain point. That could imply a long period or short period. Look up forever/aeon/olam. They are the English, Greek, and Hebrew translations of the same word. Don't worry, God is not a sadist.

It is fine to feel conviction if something speaks to you and applies, but I suppose it is different to the point it is crippling from understand or functioning.

Ah, I remember having to throw away my CDs when my uncle first introduced me and we were going through the process. I don't think I was ready to at that time and thus why I just downloaded them afterward. I still listen to secular music, but mainly instrumental, Japanese or something I know the lyrics have meaning behind them. It's a process. I don't exactly agree with the wearing pants thing. Clothing pertains to the culture and it makes a woman no less a woman than before she put them on. I never heard about women NOT having long hair just men (which I obviously have not gone by). Movies I agree with to the point that I researched it was designed to manipulate viewers and movies feed suggestion rather than simple entertainment. That depends on what you are able to see through and determine safe for yourself.
Temptation is not a sign of weakness. We all are tempted in some way and no one is exempt. I personally prefer nature over the city, but you are not required to be a hermit by any means. God wants us to live life abundantly, not shut ourselves away. Being depressed and social anxiety will do that and a different story.

I can't say that I agree with not losing our salvation. Saul was a godly man but he lost his salvation through his actions. If we lose our salvation, we have lost our personal connection with Christ. If you are still wondering if you are living right, then that is a sign you have not. :) The unpardonable sin is grieving away the Holy Spirit, which is a willful act on our part. We have to covet something enough that we push that bit of conscious away enough that we no longer care about being convicted. You sound like you have a strong awareness, so I think you are much stronger than you believe.

Fundamentalism has taken on a meaning it did not originally have. It derived from a conference two centuries ago, that only described a belief in what the Bible teaches as truth. A contrast to the traditions the churches teach, right? Today is describes traditional teachings that supposedly are based on Scripture, but are not and delve into the extremist views and teaching that you have endured. If you believe the Bible is the source of truth and can answer itself where questions lay, you are a...should I say, TRUE fundamentalist. Minus the extremes, the hate speech and fear-mongering. None of that is of God.

I understand a lot of what you are going through; I still deal with some of those things myself, but I am very hard on myself in general. You sound like you have a good heart, very cautious and thoughtful about what you do. These are good qualities that make a good Christian. None of the apostles ever felt they were good enough, some in fact were very critical of themselves. But they always remembered to pray, forgive as they were forgiven and know that they were loved by their Creator. Not everything is going to be clear and challenges will come, but I think you are on the right track of finding your way to truth abundant. Never lose hope, dear.
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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby elanordes » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:42 am

Nanashi wrote:I think you have the right attitude towards practicing your faith. It has always been the case that traditions held in churches are usually man-made rather than from the Bible itself. I do believe you have a spirit of discernment and be sure never to lose that. It will indeed help you in your walk. One thing I will tell you is that you need not fear Hell, at least the place of damnation that is meant for eternal punishment. I will tell you why and you can look this up yourself to confirm. That is Greek mythology that entered the Christian faith through Catholicism. It was a scare tactic devised to frighten people back into church, because if they did not attend, they were supposedly damned. It was all done for their money.
What the Bible does say is this: the world "hell" translates into "hades" in the Greek, but in the Ancient Hebrew it is "sheol" Sheol does not mean what the Greek word inferred. It means death or the grave. Those verses are talking about dying. You can be sure of this because the Bible says His faithful sleep until the resurrection. It also says "the dead know nothing." This also implies we do not go directly to heaven when we die, but wait until the second coming.
There is hellfire mentioned, but that is punishment for the wicked and it does not last for eternity, rather they are burned up. The word "forever" in the Bible does not mean eternally. They are actually different if you look them up. Forever or "for ever" means fore a certain period of time or until a certain point. That could imply a long period or short period. Look up forever/aeon/olam. They are the English, Greek, and Hebrew translations of the same word. Don't worry, God is not a sadist.


I had heard about the translation differences a few months ago and I've been meaning to look into them more but never did, thanks for mentioning it!

It's one of the many things that really grates on me, how fear based a lot of, if not all of 'mainstream' Christianity is, especially here in the US. For me there's two extremes, overly religious churches and overly liberal churches. I find myself in the middle, where I believe Christians should have always been. It's really frustrating and hard to find that balance.

Nanashi wrote:I don't exactly agree with the wearing pants thing. Clothing pertains to the culture and it makes a woman no less a woman than before she put them on. I never heard about women NOT having long hair just men (which I obviously have not gone by). Movies I agree with to the point that I researched it was designed to manipulate viewers and movies feed suggestion rather than simple entertainment. That depends on what you are able to see through and determine safe for yourself.


That's fundamentalism for you. They warp verses to fit their versions of what's 'right'. They think that women should always have long hair, and only wear dresses and skirts. Because pants are too 'form fitting' and will draw mens eyes and lead them into temptation. I wish I was kidding but it's literally what is taught. If a man has 'unclean' thoughts about a woman it's never his fault but hers, for any number of stupid reasons which is usually her clothes or she was 'too forward' with him.

Hmm I think there are some movies (and tv for that matter) that do do that but I haven't been affected by it. Maybe I'm just too aware of it to be affected? I don't know.

Nanashi wrote:Temptation is not a sign of weakness. We all are tempted in some way and no one is exempt. I personally prefer nature over the city, but you are not required to be a hermit by any means. God wants us to live life abundantly, not shut ourselves away. Being depressed and social anxiety will do that and a different story.


That's the thing, fundamentalists are essentially teaching is that they have to be 'removed' from the world or else they'll fall into temptation and fail. They teach that the world is completely evil and to keep themselves safe they must avoid things that aren't even bad, like movies, music, tv, certain books, etc. So it's taking temptations to an extreme. It has in turn, affected me greatly because I was born into it, the teachings have been ingrained into my mind and things like churches, Bibles, certain words and certain ways a person speaks will trigger me, like someone flipped a switch in my mind and I start reverting back to old ways of thinking. It's why this scares me so much because it's had such an adverse effect on me that's still around even today, after 11 years out of it.

When I originally posted this, I had been triggered greatly and I was fighting it. I had to talk to someone about it, I had to know that I wasn't crazy, that I was right and not losing my mind. It's so very hard to explain what it's like when that happens. It's a panic attack with an existential crisis all bundled up together to make it even harder to tell the difference between reality and what you've been indoctrinated with.

What started me on the road to depression and social anxiety was a mix between religion and members of my family. Through them I have never truly believed in myself, I have never been good enough for my family or my God that I was supposed to trust with all my being. The combination of the two crushed my being emotionally, which is a horrible thing to happen to a child. It's such a fragile point in your life where things such as beliefs are set into place and very hard to change later as an adult. I almost completely lost my sense of self, I only have fragments now and I'm trying to rebuild myself into what I should have been all along. It's very hard to break free form something that's been going on so long you don't know what it's like without it.

Nanashi wrote:I can't say that I agree with not losing our salvation. Saul was a godly man but he lost his salvation through his actions. If we lose our salvation, we have lost our personal connection with Christ. If you are still wondering if you are living right, then that is a sign you have not. :) The unpardonable sin is grieving away the Holy Spirit, which is a willful act on our part. We have to covet something enough that we push that bit of conscious away enough that we no longer care about being convicted. You sound like you have a strong awareness, so I think you are much stronger than you believe.


I have to disagree there. What I've learned from researching losing ones salvation is that it's not possible. Salvation is gained through faith alone. I'm quotingthis website here about it,

Peter is preaching in Acts 10:43 and reminds us that all the Old Testament prophets preached that salvation was through Christ. Also that all the Old Testament prophets taught that FAITH ALONE was the requirement for salvation. Acts 10:43 says "To him (Jesus Christ) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."


Also, in Matthew 17:20, even faith as little as a mustard seed is enough. It's one of the few things that's gotten me through my worst times of feeling like I wasn't good enough because my faith wasn't a big huge thing, it's was tiny, so very tiny. I was barely holding on as my world had been turned upside down. I didn't know who to believe or even if I could believe my own mind.

Nanashi wrote:If you believe the Bible is the source of truth and can answer itself where questions lay, you are a...should I say, TRUE fundamentalist. Minus the extremes, the hate speech and fear-mongering. None of that is of God.


That's an interesting way to put it. I'm not sure if I agree with it, I'll have to think on it more.


Thank you a lot for your comments! I really appreciate it. :)
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Re: Christian Fundamentalist teachings keep coming back

Postby Nanashi » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:05 pm

It's one of the many things that really grates on me, how fear based a lot of, if not all of 'mainstream' Christianity is, especially here in the US. For me there's two extremes, overly religious churches and overly liberal churches. I find myself in the middle, where I believe Christians should have always been. It's really frustrating and hard to find that balance.


one thing you can always be sure of when it comes to people is that we commonly choose the extremes over the middle-ground. I guess you mean over religious by being almost cult like? I'd have to agree and same with the compromising churches. It does feel like you're alone when you are neither of those ends, but there are more people out there that believe the same, even if not as prominent.

That's fundamentalism for you. They warp verses to fit their versions of what's 'right'. They think that women should always have long hair, and only wear dresses and skirts. Because pants are too 'form fitting' and will draw mens eyes and lead them into temptation. I wish I was kidding but it's literally what is taught. If a man has 'unclean' thoughts about a woman it's never his fault but hers, for any number of stupid reasons which is usually her clothes or she was 'too forward' with him.

Hmm I think there are some movies (and tv for that matter) that do do that but I haven't been affected by it. Maybe I'm just too aware of it to be affected? I don't know.


A lot of false teachers get away with it because they don't encourage the church to read their Bibles and some people will only look as far as the preacher tells them. As God said, "My people will be destroyed for lack of knowledge." People sadly have become lazy and no longer earnest in wanting to know what God has to say and will take the easy route of not studying for themselves, praying for understanding.

Exactly. You are very aware of these things so I don't think they will have the same effect as so that blindly takes it all in without question. Most times we stop watching or listening to certain things anyway because of the the content. It's not that anyone will be punished for such things, it is more so limiting the secular influences and snares Satan creates.

That's the thing, fundamentalists are essentially teaching is that they have to be 'removed' from the world or else they'll fall into temptation and fail. They teach that the world is completely evil and to keep themselves safe they must avoid things that aren't even bad, like movies, music, tv, certain books, etc. So it's taking temptations to an extreme. It has in turn, affected me greatly because I was born into it, the teachings have been ingrained into my mind and things like churches, Bibles, certain words and certain ways a person speaks will trigger me, like someone flipped a switch in my mind and I start reverting back to old ways of thinking. It's why this scares me so much because it's had such an adverse effect on me that's still around even today, after 11 years out of it.


As Scripture says, "you are in this world, but not part of it." We are sojourners just a Jesus was and our home is in Heavenly city He has prepared. I understand what the teachings they are preaching are, but to a point. As you said, they go to extremes. That is what usually leads to those fortified places in the midwest that end up becoming cults. Since God never intended for us to live in huge numbers in one place, we see the results of that. More people leads to more sin, and thus the environment of cities. Cain was the first to build cities and Babel was another city where the results of sin could be seen. All over the Bible we find cities lead to what could be avoided in rural living. That does not mean everything about a city is bad, mind you. But the luxuries of them come at a prices. A lot of people try and leave the cities but cannot afford to.
The only time I know of that the Bible says we are to abandon the world altogether is just before Jesus arrival because persecution would begin.

Do you think it is hard for you to separate what is true from the extremes that you have been taught? You might have said that several times, but specifically, I think your saying that your mind automatically goes to what you have been taught instead of that middle ground or new understanding that comes to you.
It seems like their forged your perception of God through themselves. What they did, God approved of. I can understand how that is impossible seemingly to differentiate, but I think you are breaking through that.

I have to disagree there. What I've learned from researching losing ones salvation is that it's not possible. Salvation is gained through faith alone. I'm quotingthis website here about it,


I read through your link and thanks for letting me see where that perspective was coming from. One glaring thing stood out most when I came to the end of it.

When Saul went to the witch of Endor. If you remember the story, the witches, deviators and mediums had been banished from the land because they practiced paganism and it was not of God. This leads into what I was talking about when I said we don't go to Heaven when we die. It comes down to our understanding of what is a soul. The Bible says a living soul is comprised of the dust of the earth and breath of life, which comes from God. When we die, the body decays and the breath returns to God, presumably until the Second Coming and the dead in Christ rise first, followed by those alive. If we think the spirit is a separate entity, then that leads to believing that Samuel did indeed was summoned by the witch.

A soul is not immortal because we are told:

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

John 5:28- "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice.

The contradiction should stand out: Does God work through witches, which He condemns? Remember that the spirit that looked like Samuel lied to Saul and led him and his son, Jonathan to their death. It was a demon summoned by a witch, only Jesus has power to bring back the dead, not man. I think the translation of "spirit" in that passage in the Ancient Hebrew is the same word used for an unclean spirit or demon. Saul's final rejection of God was trusting in enchanters rather than God. Losing salvation is not God removing it, it is our own willful rejection of God that is the reason we lose salvation. Faith is required for salvation, but what faith did Saul have at that point? To be saved is to trust in God and follow His ways, but Saul did none of these. Saul did not repent or ask for forgiveness. When David committed a double-sin, he truthfully repented. That is the difference of faith and salvation and losing one's way. Our actions show which way we walk.
Otherwise that just means anyone can be baptized, say they are saved and sin believing they are in God's favour.

I hope that wasn't confusing. Even if you still disagree, no problem :) I don't expect you to take my word and a few verses as salt when you can study in-depth when you are curious on the matter. I'm trying to avoid sounding preachy as possible ^_^

Galatians 2:15-21
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!


*Just in case, I'll mention this because some preach this to people. When it says Jews, it does not mean the hereditary ones. Remember the Paul preached to a church of Jews and Gentiles. Gentiles are spiritual Jews because they were accepted into the family through Christ's sacrifice because salvation was for all.

You are right in one sense. The first covenant, which was man justifying himself through the law did not work. Obeying the law alone does not save us. Faith is required. However, Paul also says that it was through recognizing the law, that he died to it and lived through faith. If you noticed verse 17, it says that we are not justified by Christ alone, because a sinner that is saved is no longer justified by faith. His heart is not with God, but that is what repentance is for. We ask for forgiveness. Why would we need prayer to repent if we are saved? It through recognizing the law of God that we are no longer under the penalty of the law (which is death), but we are under grace, and we walk in faith with Christ.

God actually painted a picture of the three steps of salvation: Remember the tabernacles 3 compartments? Outside was the altar of sacrifice; that is called Justification. It represents Christ's sacrifice. We are justified through Him. Then there is the Holy place with the candles (spreading the light of truth), the bread (the Bible), and the altar of incense (representing prayer). That's called Sanctification. Then there is the Holy of Holy room, where God resided. It represented Glorification. God built a model of how steps to salvation, so we are the ones confused when He left every opportunity to understand Him available.

Well I know that are used to the modern use of "fundamentalist" so it will sound wrong to you. As I said, fundamentalist never meant what it has become today. Let's put it this way if easier to relate: The Protestant Reformation began because the Catholic church said they alone determined what the Bible meant. The reformers believed the Bible answered itself, that God told us what we need to know through Scripture. That does not mean it was the only thing we should trust because many can be inspired by the Holy Spirit to write or teach something that harmonizes with Scripture and we can learn from that too.
Fundamentalism now means what the Protestants called fanaticism or extremism. That is what you grew up with but recognize as fundamentalist teachings. Current politics and Catholicism (who believe the Bible should not be taken seriously/literally at all) have twisted the term to describe terrorists, furthering the bad connotation. You would agree because it does represent extremist views, but there are those that are not extremist and believe in the Bible, (no traditions above it, but coinciding) consider themselves fundamentalist in the original definition. If you have read Revelation, it says that God's Word will be trampled upon aka those that do not adhere to what will be enforced because of adherence to the Bible. I don't want to say too much more on what that is leading up to, because it's a whole other discussion. XP

You're very welcome and thank you for sharing and responding yourself. I wish you the best and hope you have a wonderful day :)
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