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Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Bodhichitta » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:38 am

Hello dear friends,

Have you or anybody you know had seizures that were not epileptic seizures (NES) and related to DID and Conversion Disorder?

I am having these types of seizures and although I have found literature on it my T has never worked with anybody that has had this condition.

Thanks,
Diane
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Mrsderby0624 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:56 pm

Boy am I glad to "see" you.

More specifically they are called PNES, or Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizures, as other conditions can cause NES. I have had them since 2001! I also have not found anyone who has dealt with them. Asked my neurologist yesterday if he had any idea how hard it was to find treatment for conversion disorder. his response was "it's impossible. Everyone just wishes a trap door would open under you so they would not have to deal with you" After 13 years that made me feel real hopeful. NOT. However, we are not the only ones. I reached out on the Epilepsy Foundation website blog and have found 13 other women from USA to London to Tahiti.

I have ordered a self help book and am hoping I will get somewhere with that. The author is Dr. Lorna Myers. I can't remember the name but the book is easy to find on Amazon.

If you happen to be in New York she has a clinic there and she has worked with PNES for 10 years. just a thought.

Do your very best to keep your chin up.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Akuma » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:13 am

I have them since 1999.
I fixed them in 2005 but couldnt handle the psychological pain which they masked and which I would rate 10/10 on the painscale, so I resuppressed it and now I have them again since then. Have not yet figured out what exactly the method was back then as I have forgotten.
I am atm in the process of trying to figure it back out, but it seems very complicated as I used hashish as an anxyolytic back then which also amplified emotional states. I am trying to do the same cathartic method now with autogenic training, havent yet figured out the way yet though, as I was in a pretty specific hypnoid state and I actually saw the supressed emotion in a vision-like experience before it was possible to feel it again.

I can give you a few hints though.
These PNES are a form of auto aggression, I hate myself for feeling whatever is beyond that, I am "beating myself" per the movements. They are also a form of soothing shaking as a response to the pain that they "symbolize". Additionally the anger-reaction is due to fear being transformed into anger.
On a more neurologically oriented note, certain hypnagoid states like the hypnoid or hypnagogic state are marked by the deactivation of the thalamus, which will result in all outside consciousness except for the olfactory being shut off and also all defense mechanisms being shut off. So a mastery of these states makes it possible to directly contact the "formerly" repressed aspect in what is called an autosymbolized fashion. I am theorizing that the visionary state I induced back then via a kind of primary-process trance was of such a hypnagoid nature.
I'm not sure if other methods work, as the conversion is not only a conditioning, maybe a form of instinctualisation, but - at least in my case - also leads to the suppressed emotion to be directly connected with massive fear towards it, which complicates the problem.
I will go to a psychosomatic clinic in a few months, who knows maybe they have another method for these things. I'd guess they would probably try to tackle the problem in a more indirect fashion, my giving more ego-strength in the hope that the fear reaction or fear of being overwhelmed will become less. *shrug*
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Mrsderby0624 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:26 pm

Thank you Akuma for the response.

WHAT???

Can you repeat that in English for us stupid people? I do not have any medical degrees, psychiatric degrees, or any other degrees which would help me translate what you wrote. However I truly want to hear what you had to say.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Akuma » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:07 pm

Mrsderby0624 wrote:Thank you Akuma for the response.

WHAT???

Can you repeat that in English for us stupid people? I do not have any medical degrees, psychiatric degrees, or any other degrees which would help me translate what you wrote. However I truly want to hear what you had to say.


Sorry.
PNES are a sort of defense mechanism against an unacceptable painful emotion in my case. Since the reaction is so automated it seems impossible for me to deautomate it purely by willpower. What seems to be possible though based on my experience in 2005 and based on an almost-getting-it experience a few months back is that you can access the emotion in a changed state of consciousness, after a form of self-hypnosis. When this state is deep enough the mental defense mechanisms are deactivated alltogether. One of those states for example is the state between falling asleep and starting to dream, which is called hypnagogic state, but an equivalent absense of defenses can apparently be reached via high levels of concentration - in Buddhism for example a state like this is known as Dhyana - in my case back then I guess the Hashish was helping me, since it was both reducing fear to the level of nonexistence and also heightening concentrative ability and intuition.
In any case in those states you see visions, or hypnagogic hallucinations which are symbols of stuff you have just thought of before going to bed for example, or symbols of bodily functions, or symbols of unconscious material - a guy called Silberer coined this "autosymbolism" in the 1920s and the process is seen as that underlying the creation of dreams at night. At the same time there is something called primary process, which was Freuds word for the unconscious flow of information in the brain and of which natural hypnagogic imagery, the dreamworld and the hallucinations and thought-patterns in psychotic patients are examples. So what I was suggesting is that mastering the hypnagogic state for example gives you access to whatever repressed material you want to access (compare f.e. the wiki article to hypnagogia). In a similar manner, deep states of self-hypnosis can be used to access those materials apparently.
in my case back then I just lied on the bed, did a sequence of concentrations and mantras, which I again got from an inner voice on the primary process level (a sort of automatic writing / creative writing if you want) and then concentrated on the heart center wondering why I feel so bad. So suddenly I switched into a sort of hypnotic state and saw a crystal sun behind a black horizon and in the moment that I saw this sun I panicked, because I immediately knew what the feeling was that I had supressed for so long. Interestingly I only felt the feeling when the rays of that sun hit me, but I knew what it was before I felt it; after that there was a rush of energy from the heart up to the head which felt like something became connected. After that for three weeks I felt totally different, much more alive, albeit extremely sad and depressed. In that time the PNES were completely gone. Until I stupidly decided that it would be better to resuppress that pain feeling. :roll: Well now for the past 10 years I feel practically nothing again heh. And as I tried to communicate in my first reply, one of the reasons is really that I have this totally unlogical fear of that emotion. I would think the sequence is like this

Triggering stimulus
-> Amygdala creates the emotional content as a reaction to the trigger
-> Amygdala tries to route it to consciousness
-> Emotion gets unconsciously categorized as dangerous / painful
-> Route gets changed
-> Anger 1 gets triggered as a defense against the emotional pain
-> Route gets changed
-> Fear gets triggered
-> Anger 2 gets triggered as a defense against fear

Depending on the stimulus intensity there are two outcomes ->

a) Anger 1 gets converted into PNES
b) Anger 2 gets converted into a spasm / short explosive movement

This might be different from what actually happens, but its pretty close I guess to what happens in my case at least. If you dont know what the emotion is I think there is also a certain symbolic content in the kind of PNES - some people experience quite complex PNES where they almost make a little show out of it for example, others look like theyre beating something. I at least see this as clearly symbolic for what is converted.

I hope this was more clear.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Mrsderby0624 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:17 pm

It's funny. My husband is very well read and tends to use big words. When I question it he says he can say something using less words that way. I didn't believe him... Until now. I think you said the same thing both times but the second note was twice as long. Don't you just hate dealing with stupid people? LOL

Anyway,

I think hashish is a drug and I can't do drugs. Not because I think they are "bad". I can't do anything that alters my mind and makes me "feel funny" or I puke my guts out. The same happens with narcotic pain meds and getting slightly drunk. Bummer. Due to other conditions I cannot meditate. Trust me on this. I cannot isolate the "offending" trauma as there are just too many to count of almost every kind. I was not kidnapped. I was not tortured. That is about all I was spared from. I have spent several years looking for someone to help me, therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist...anybody, and every single time without fail I am told almost the exact same thing. "You are too complex. We can't help you". Because, apparently, those of us who truly need help are not entitled to it.

However, since writing my original note I have found a book, "Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizures: A guide" written by Dr. Lorna Myers. I just finished reading it last night. I learned more about my condition in 1 book than I have in 13 years of research. I may be on to something. If you are a believer in self help books I highly recommend this one. I found it on Amazon for $14.00. My T has bought one so she can help me more also.

Wish me luck, and I wish you all the luck also.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Akuma » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:18 am

Mrsderby0624 wrote:It's funny. My husband is very well read and tends to use big words. When I question it he says he can say something using less words that way. I didn't believe him... Until now. I think you said the same thing both times but the second note was twice as long. Don't you just hate dealing with stupid people? LOL


:lol:

Well it's my mistake, too. I'm a narcissist, I just expect people to know what I know, so it's good to be pointed to that's not the case.

I think hashish is a drug and I can't do drugs. Not because I think they are "bad". I can't do anything that alters my mind and makes me "feel funny" or I puke my guts out. The same happens with narcotic pain meds and getting slightly drunk.


Hashish is the sieved resin of the cannabis plant; cannabis usually has strong anti-nausea effects, it's for example used to treat the nausea in chemotherapy. The main problem with using Hashish or Weed as a psychological med is that the plants have different active agents in different "setups" - so one plant can make you feel this way, the other one that way. Therefore its very hard anyways to find the right one.

Bummer. Due to other conditions I cannot meditate. Trust me on this. I cannot isolate the "offending" trauma as there are just too many to count of almost every kind. I was not kidnapped. I was not tortured. That is about all I was spared from. I have spent several years looking for someone to help me, therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist...anybody, and every single time without fail I am told almost the exact same thing. "You are too complex. We can't help you". Because, apparently, those of us who truly need help are not entitled to it.


Yea I just made the experience two weeks ago. Went to a clinic for a 1st interview, because I had been at a psychiatrist who simply admitted he couldnt even diagnose me and a clinci would be better. What do you say the clinic said they couldnt help me a individual psychiatrist would be better lol. Ah well, other clinic tomorrow ;)

However, since writing my original note I have found a book, "Psychogenic Non Epileptic Seizures: A guide" written by Dr. Lorna Myers. I just finished reading it last night. I learned more about my condition in 1 book than I have in 13 years of research. I may be on to something. If you are a believer in self help books I highly recommend this one. I found it on Amazon for $14.00. My T has bought one so she can help me more also.

Wish me luck, and I wish you all the luck also.


Cool, I'll see if I can find it here. Good luck.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Mrsderby0624 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:26 am

Marijuana makes me puke worst of all... and I don't sleep for 2 days... and it has no effect on my pain.

Funny since I was taking it for pain, insomnia, and nausea.

Before you say it, I tried different kinds, from a medical marijuana dispensary, that were "specially made" to treat those conditions. It is not the substance that makes me sick. It is the "altered" feeling. I heard that CBC (or is it CBD?) in pill form would work for me but it is just way more expensive than I can afford.

Guess I will just have to wait for the miracle.

Good luck.
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Akuma » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:42 am

Mrsderby0624 wrote:Marijuana makes me puke worst of all... and I don't sleep for 2 days... and it has no effect on my pain.

Funny since I was taking it for pain, insomnia, and nausea.

Before you say it, I tried different kinds, from a medical marijuana dispensary, that were "specially made" to treat those conditions. It is not the substance that makes me sick. It is the "altered" feeling. I heard that CBC (or is it CBD?) in pill form would work for me but it is just way more expensive than I can afford.


Its CBD ^^
But well, yea, to be honest the "medical dispensary" stuff is most of the time just stuff for junkies, it has waaay to much THC and i guess this whole "medical" thing is like it was back in the days when alcohol was banned and people were buying it as a "medicine"... There are certain CBD-only strains out there, but sicne I live in Germany my access to specific types of cannabis is zero. One of the CBD only types is called Charlottes web, its named after a little girl called Charlotte who had epilepsy and they made this strain for her, helping her - theres even a docu about it. But I wasnt trying to get you smokin Dope anyways, dont get me wrong :lol: It's just that I had my catharsis reaction while being on some specific hashish back then.
If you like you could post here again when you have read the book and / or made any progress.
I'll see to it, that I'll annoy the people in the clinci with my seizures and see if they can do anything about it ;-)

*wave*
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Re: Conversion Disorder Seizures

Postby Mrsderby0624 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:49 am

Be warned. Having a seizure, even PNES, in a psych clinic will get the paramedics called, or at the very least, you referred to a medical doctor. That's why I bought the book. I'm going to have my psychiatrist read it so she will (hopefully) understand what is going on. No matter what you say, if it "looks" medical it must be.

I did finish the book. It was like the author actually knew me! I may have a handle on my trigger but I want to consult with someone first.

Can I ask what country you're in?

I do wish you the best of luck.
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