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Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

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Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby OrbweaverLeads » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:34 am

I found the perspective of H.O. (both a BPD sufferer and a treating, professional mental health practitioner for BPD sufferers)to be very helpful and sobering. Even freeing. Finally, someone tells me the truth. Instead of the endless meds & talking therapies and getting fired by therapists who say I'm too damaged by maternal abuse to treat? Finally someone, this H.O., gives it to me straight. It's like a sanity tonic, a health tonic:

"A normal person derives strength in daily functioning in the indifferent or occasionally hostile world from their own healthy ego. A BPD has no healthy ego to base their survival on. A BPD can only survive on constant stream of love and affection, and if it dries out the BPD's world collapses. This is where the frantic efforts to avoid abandonment come from--because BPDs know painfully well that they are unable to function without it.A normal person derives strength in daily functioning in the indifferent or occasionally hostile world from their own healthy ego. A BPD has no healthy ego to base their survival on. A BPD can only survive on constant stream of love and affection, and if it dries out the BPD's world collapses. This is where the frantic efforts to avoid abandonment come from--because BPDs know painfully well that they are unable to function without it."

Finally, someone tells me, admits, that the social world is largely indifferent and sometimes hostile. That has been my experience with my own family, with my so-called 'friends', with my colleagues and employers, with my GP, with my psychiatrists, with my siblings - so indifferent- and with my expensive therapists. The truth is so helpful I feel equipped to face & understand the world. Why didn't they all just tell me, "we're indifferent".??
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby jaus tail » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:05 pm

" A normal person derives strength in daily functioning in the indifferent or occasionally hostile world from their own healthy ego. A BPD has no healthy ego to base their survival on. A BPD can only survive on constant stream of love and affection, and if it dries out the BPD's world collapses. This is where the frantic efforts to avoid abandonment come from--because BPDs know painfully well that they are unable to function without it."


true. with me I get upset even if a colleague (whom I don't interact with) leaves the firm. I feel like my whole world is collapsing.

Why didn't they all just tell me, "we're indifferent".??

cause they don't want t say: we don't know
plus everyone likes to give advice n solve the problem. that way they feel good about themselves.
could be at times they genuinely want to help but don't know what to say.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby Remember Ronni » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:54 pm

This is just.......nonsense. I am surprised it came from a mental health professional.

Who do you know gets a constant stream of love and affection? This is the real world we're talking about. No one gets that. Many people grow up without it. They're not collapsting left right and centre. And the whole abandonment argument too? That might be how it works for you. But generally adults don't disintigrate when the love train stops? And some of us actively avoid the whole love and affection thing on purpose.

Seriously if I were being subjected to this constant stream of love and affection I would be the first one out the door. We are social beings yes, but constant? Is that not stalking?

But yes society is largely indifferent - we are talking about a lot of people though, on earth I mean. So yes, most of them are going to be indifferent to your presence on earth. Some might be hostile. But if that description includes your friends you need to be picking better friends.

To take a whole sector of the population who suffers from BPD and try and fit them into the one square hole just is not going to work. There are people who lived horrendous lives and yet don't suffer with BPD, and there are those with BPD for whom it's difficult to work out why. It's a whole mis of genetics, the environment in which you grow up and the experiences we've been through

Even if this statement is true, how does it help anyone? And is it not just as invalidating? Because it kind of reads like no one gives a crap and you need this constant stream of love and affection or you will get BPD. So now what?

I don't mean to be disrespectful but this statement is inaccurate and potentially harmful.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby jaus tail » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:15 pm

M not a mental health expert. this is only my opinion.

i think love n affection may not be constant for many children but getting validation from childhood helps in making nons self-reliant at the core.
plus they make friends easily so that also brings validation.

also its lack of validation that wrecks the core.
just as if hot water falls(criticism) on your skin it burns, but if warm water(love, affection) falls it doesnt affect much.

most of people with bpd didnt get validation as children, in fact there was constant criticism, indifference, comparison, expectations, emotional blackmail...
if all this is from a stranger or friend you can fight back, but if this comes from a parent then the anger is internalized into guilt. for children their parents are god figure n they want to please the parents.

all this makes one seeks attention n validation from outside...
nons also seek validation but not to the extent a bpd person would expect. so nons get their share of validation from the many friends they make easily.

but bpd struggle to make friends n so they seek a lot of validation from others.

a quote: it is easier to raise strong children than repair broken men.

most nons are raised with validation n so they're pretty strong at the core (not to be mistaken with confidence). like they're comfortable in their skin.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby Remember Ronni » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:54 pm

This is a very common thread it seems with those suffering from BPD. I wonder though if it is even possible to pinpoint the one single cause of BPD. Perhaps it is enough to say that at some point in our childhoods our emotional needs were not being met in the way we needed. That could happen for many reasons and in so many different circumstances I think it would be impossible to label anything as the "cause" of BPD. It might not be down to a bad or cruel caregiver - maybe they tried their absolute best but were themselves coping with the legacies of their own upbringing and care.

Its just when you read people's stories, on here in books etc. the path to BPD is never as straightforward as having an invalidating parent. For many it's an accumulation of things perhaps over a long period of time.

Familes are made up of imperfect people who are given no training or instruction manual. They knew far less about mental illness than we do, or the general public do even in such liberal times. And whilst the experts can hazard a pretty good guess no one can tell you why it is you developed BPD whereas others in your family didn't or haven't.

To blame it on an indifferent society or one invalidating parent would be impossible. And a very big waste of time because it doesn't matter who's "fault" this was it's down to us, as adults, to deal with it. We have to learn how to regulate our own emotions and not let them destroy us or our lives. I don't think it's ever going to 'feel' better but we can learn to cope with things better, to make better choices in our lives, to set our own boundaries.

Blaming it on anyone gets you nowhere. And blaming it on society is just a cop out.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby jaus tail » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:49 am

It might not be down to a bad or cruel caregiver - maybe they tried their absolute best but were themselves coping with the legacies of their own upbringing and care.


true but i wouldnt want my caretaker to be anyone else's caretaker. there are horrible parents in the world. some worse than mine. n yeah they all tried their best. but only when i realize that their behavior was toxic did i understand that this is not how i will behave if i ever have kids. i may not want to be a parent ever, but if at all i do become i certainly wont behave like my caretaker.

Familes are made up of imperfect people who are given no training or instruction manual. They knew far less about mental illness than we do, or the general public do even in such liberal times. And whilst the experts can hazard a pretty good guess no one can tell you why it is you developed BPD whereas others in your family didn't or haven't.


in my family if i fell ill, i was yelled at. 'how can you fall ill at such a young age?' if i got less marks in the exam, i was beaten. once my sibling was beaten 100 slaps(the caretaker counted while beating) because he got less marks in an exam. n this was in class 6 or 7.

if i used the bathroom for potty, i was shouted at. called shameless. i would wait for the caretaker to leave the house, so i could use the toilet. i once went to the kitchen n peed in a glass cause the caretaker would shout if i used the bathroom.

once i had a cough. i coughed at night n my caretaker shouted at me that i'm disturbing her sleep. i literally choked my throat so i wouldnt cough.

when my caretaker n i went to get my spectacles/eyes checked, my caretaker shouted at me before everyone that you cant even read properly.

threats of suicide were common. she'd manipulate me to go shopping with her n mock my father openly. my father was a great guy. my caretaker only wanted all the attention one herself.

she was/is proud of her rage n would slap the children at drop of the hat.

To blame it on an indifferent society or one invalidating parent would be impossible. And a very big waste of time because it doesn't matter who's "fault" this was it's down to us, as adults, to deal with it. We have to learn how to regulate our own emotions and not let them destroy us or our lives. I don't think it's ever going to 'feel' better but we can learn to cope with things better, to make better choices in our lives, to set our own boundaries.

Blaming it on anyone gets you nowhere. And blaming it on society is just a cop out.


i would disagree here. unless we find out cause, we'd end up repeating the behavior. could be that parents arent the only cause, but then there's a reason child social services exist. if i dont realize that my parents behavior was horrible, i might be like them.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby Remember Ronni » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:16 am

Understanding is very different to blaming. But I am in a situation where I am diagnosed with BPD and am 99% sure that is what my mother suffers from. Which would explain her behaviour. My Mum has never sought help so has no diagnosis. But BPD wasn't really a thing until the 80s when I was all grown up. It doesn't make it right but blaming her? I find that difficult. And as unhelpful as blaming myself for my own BPD.

I was born at the end of the 60s. It was a very different time and mental illness was a subject you just never talked about. There was no internet. No mobile phones.

When I was borm I was separated from my parents because I needed life saving treatment. My Mum was in another hospital. I spent the first 6 weeks in an incubator. My parents were told I probably wouldn't make it. So when my therapists talk about my abandonment issues I remind them of that. Because the fact is no one really knows why I have BPD. It could all be down to my genes.

The simple fact is we all have a reason because we all ended up here. Our stories though will be very different.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby jaus tail » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:35 am

Even my caretaker had some mental illness or the other. Her siblings were in mental asylum. I think it's a cycle. A tortured soul tortures others.

Also back then shouting at kids was considered normal.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby OrbweaverLeads » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:16 pm

jaus tail wrote:cause they don't want t say: we don't know
.

I think it's more than that jaus tail. It's that they don't care, they are indifferent.

indifferent - having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned.

That's what I find so freeing about H.O's writing. All this time (I'm in my mid 40's) I've been wondering why, for example, why my older siblings did nothing to protect, help or comfort me while, or after, I was being abused. So much violence & abuse & they just looked bored or left. I always thought they felt guilty for not helping me & if they'd just admit that & apologise we could progress with a healthy friendship as adults. I could not figure it out for years, why not just admit it? Now I know the truth! They don't feel guilty, never did because they never cared. They were indifferent. And very much are so today.
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Re: Society is largely indifferent and occasionally hostile

Postby jaus tail » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:16 am

OrbweaverLeads wrote:They don't feel guilty, never did because they never cared. They were indifferent. And very much are so today.


could be they have challenges/issues of their own. i'm not belittling your challenges in any way though.
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