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First time Sub... feeling nervous

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Re: First time Sub... feeling nervous

Postby Callalily » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:39 pm

Oh man. Okay. MJH, I accepted some time ago that you and I experience BDSM in very different ways. I really don't want this thread to turn into a debate because I think it's a really good and helpful thread so far. I like seeing Subs encouraging and helping other Subs. Unfortunately, in that spirit, I need to respond to this:

MJH2013 wrote:Second, I think I've talked about this with you before but I entirely disagree with you on the notion that Dominants are not selfish. I am very, very selfish. My pleasure matters more to me than my submissive's pleasure. That's the definition of selfish, right? However, my submissive's welfare, and well-being are also of paramount importance. Because I love her, and it lowers my pleasure when she is doing poorly, is upset, or is having difficulties. Additionally, if my submissive is upset she is less able to please me up to my expectations. Therefore, in order to derive the greatest possible pleasure from my submissive I often do things like cheer her up, talk her through her problems and empathize, etc. Not only because I want to do them (again, the whole "I love her" thing comes to mind here) but also because she will be more able to please me due to these things.


I have no idea if there are some Subs out there who'd be into this, apparently yours is. Everyone is different. But for me, personally, everything you wrote here would be an absolute flaming red flag of No. It completely goes against everything I have learned about healthy BDSM. I'm not saying that a Sub's pleasure is more important than her Dom's, or that she's secretly in control and this is all about serving her. But why on earth would I want to be with someone who told me my pleasure was secondary or incidental? Why would I give myself to someone who valued me so little?

http://www.kinkabuse.com/healthy-bdsm/some-passing-thoughts-on-being-a-good-dom/

Sub in Doubt, there is an expression you will see a lot in the BDSM community if you continue to explore it, which is "Earn her submission." This is so, so, so important. No Dom is entitled to make you do anything you don't want to do. When I first told my Dom I wanted to be his, he was honored. Just as I'm honored by his desire to have me. I respect his limits and he respects mine, not because we have a contract but because we love each other. :D This is supposed to be a happy, exciting, sexy experience. Please do not settle for less.
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Re: First time Sub... feeling nervous

Postby MJH2013 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:30 pm

But that's the thing I don't think you understand here Callalily: Her pleasure is incidental, but her happiness is not. I might not care as much as your Dominant about whether or not everything I do to my submissive pleases her through the sensations (she gets pleasure from pleasing me regardless, but that's a different story) but I certainly care just as much if not more than your Dominant about my submissive's happiness. I want her to be happy. Her happiness pleases me. So I most certainly want her to be happy overall. I say that's a selfish desire because at the end of the day, I want her to be happy for my own reasons (in addition to the fact that she deserves to be happy). Thus, everything ultimately leads back to my own desires (just as in my 24/7 relationship everything also ultimately leads back to my responsibility) I fail to see how this represents any kind of a red flag, but if you see something like that then that's your prerogative. It's not that I will intentionally do things that she hates, it's that I will do what I want within her limits. If it's not a limit (i.e. she doesn't outright refuse to do it, or if it's a soft-limit then it has to be built-up to) then I just might do it if I want to. And honestly, I think we're saying much the same thing here: My selfishness comes across as a sort of protectiveness and complete desire for my submissive to be happy- hence why she would probably agree with your assertion that Dominants are not selfish. I'm just coming from a different perspective: To me, wanting my submissive to be happy (and thus to be able to please me more) is selfish due to the overall basis of my desires. If that's difficult to understand for you, or you don't agree with that then I'm sorry for imposing it on you. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions here, and while I might differ in my opinions I certainly respect your perspective.

And it doesn't need to be a debate. Not this time. I'm just sharing a different perspective. But I don't particularly like the implication you made of "subs-helping-subs" as it sounds like you don't think advice from the "other side" will be all that helpful. I realize that it was probably unintentional, but that's how it came across. But, C'est la vie.

And I completely agree with you that a Dominant may need to "earn" a submissive's submission. Just because someone claims to be dominant does not make them entitled to a submissive.

SubinDoubt, seeing as you haven't had a session with your Dominant yet I think you should talk with him. Tell him about your doubts, your fears, and your issues that you've mentioned here (and any other ones you can think of). Make sure he LISTENS to you, because that's part of being a good Dominant as well. Dominants do not just issue commands, they also listen to and respect their submissives limits and try and make sure they remain happy. Heck, even more "extreme" Dominants like myself do that. If your Dominant is not making you happy, you need to let him know. And if he doesn't care about that, or doesn't feel like trying to assuage your fears or make you happy then he doesn't deserve you. Not at all.

This whole anal as punishment thing? It's an affront to good BDSM. I understand that he's more experienced than you, and due to that and the fact that you're a submissive it feels better to listen than to talk. But your opinion is just as important as his is regarding limits. You get to have things you say "no" to just as much as he gets to have things he wants. Just because he's done this for a while doesn't mean he's done it well- practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. And if your Dominant hasn't been practicing perfectly he is most certainly not perfect yet and thus just as fallible as you are. So SubinDoubt, you need to talk to him. And if you don't think you can do that because he might get angry, give you more punishments, or he won't listen to you then you need to seriously reconsider whether you want to submit to this man. Because he might talk the talk, but if he doesn't respect his submissive's limits and doesn't want his submissive to ber happy then he most certainly doesn't walk the walk. And it's walking the walk that "earns" a submissive's submission. Because like in anything else, talk is cheap in BDSM.

Best of luck and best wishes

-MJH
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