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I want to teach! Possibly...

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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby Ada » Sun May 17, 2015 10:04 am

Callalily wrote:when it stops being a role and consent becomes irrelevant.

We have a few forums for that. Domestic Violence, Sexual Abuse and Sexual Assault come to mind. It's nothing to do with BDSM at that point. This forum is about the issues that can come up in BDSM relationships. But where things have gone from consensual to non consensual. That's no different to that happening in a vanilla relationship. It's abuse either way. I don't think it's fair to take over slave_girl's topic. To highlight how unhealthy some relationships are.

As for feeling numb to abuse. Why?! That seems unhealthy to me, not the feeling of hurt that people could be treated that way. As I see it. Better than becoming numb is to avoid the trigger. I hate the litany of death and doom that makes up most TV news. So I simply don't watch it. Does that make me a bad person? LOL no. Am I shallow or insensitive for not caring? I don't think so. Again this may just be me. But my caring is about me. Not about the people suffering. I find I'm trying to make myself feel better about someone else's problem. In practice, my feeling any given emotion for people I'll never interact with doesn't change the world one iota. So personally I'm not comfortable with that illusion. I help where I can. I leave the rest of the world to itself. Walking around with horror and pain in my heart. Doesn't seem to me to make the world better. Which I see as a reason for me being alive.

Finally I agree with Aaron. :D Don't use other people's definitions in your own life. If you're not submissive, don't add that to your list. If you are subby but don't want to be a slave. That's fine, explore how you DO want to define it. Society's list of "sexy" things changes month to month. And culture to culture. No point in chasing it. Far better to work on why you feel like it matters.
We think too much and feel too little.
 More than machinery, we need humanity.
 More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness.


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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby EternalMystery » Fri May 22, 2015 2:21 pm

There are slaves who are not submissive. They obey because it is what they have agreed to do as part of their M/s relationship, but they do not feel submissive at all. There is no "one way" to be in bdsm.

-- Sat May 23, 2015 12:29 am --

slave_girl,

The desire to teach/train others is a common one that many go through. It's also a complex one, many Dom/mes or Master/Mistresses feel they want to train their own sub/slave to suit their own needs, so don't really feel the need to send them out for training.

However, if you have a skill not many have, but others seek, then it is possible to teach that. Victorian afternoon tea service sounds like one of these. You may also find a fair bit of interest from submissive men, as there seems to be many submissive men out there who can't find a D/M for one reason or another and seek to meet their needs through being trained.

If you find there is no interest in what you want to teach, it can seem personal, but it's not. There are so many diverse interests in BDSM, not everyone is going to be into everything. Just like in business, it's about supply and demand. If people aren't interested, it's because they aren't interested, not because they don't want you to teach them :)

With a very private personality, think about maybe teaching people one on one. It doesn't seem as scary if it's only one person.
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby Gemini_Incarnate » Sat May 23, 2015 12:24 pm

"There are slaves who are not submissive. They obey because it is what they have agreed to do as part of their M/s relationship, but they do not feel submissive at all. There is no "one way" to be in bdsm."

How does that work? If they aren't submissive then why would they want to be in an M/s relationship in the first place?
Alters:


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*Meow* ^^
Aaron [ESTP]
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby BiB » Sat May 23, 2015 12:29 pm

Uh I didnt know this section, so I made two post in wrong place.
I havent read all at all but...who are the little??
-------

Sorry for my English, Im not a native.
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby MJH2013 » Sat May 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Aaron, while I am not Eternal Mystery and did not make his claim (nor do I necessarily agree with it) I may be able to provide a bit of answer as to why a non-submissive individual could be in a BDSM relationship.

To begin with, it really depends on what Eternal Mystery meant by "submissive" when he or she made his or her statement. Eternal Mystery is correct when he or she declares that "there is no 'one way' to be in BDSM" but I believe that he or she got a tad bit overambitious with this statement and was therefore unfortunately just a bit confusing. If what Eternal Mystery meant by non-submissives in a M/s (or BDSM, kinky etc.) relationships was "individuals who do not self-identify in the submissive role" then it is very easy to explain: There could be switches in a M/s relationship who choose to submit to their partners but are capable of dominating other individuals or submissives and thus do not self-identify as a submissive. These individuals would assume the role of the submissive within their M/s relationship, but may in fact assume the role of the Dominant outside said relationship- thus they may not be considered to be strictly submissive. If this is what Eternal Mystery meant by his or her post, then I completely agree with that assertion. Switches are very capable of assuming a submissive role within their M/s relationships and a different role outside of their relationships- this is very much in keeping with the idea that switches are by definition "both" Dominant and submissive (as opposed to either or) and I do not see any inconsistencies in logic here. So, now I think that we can understand one possible reason Eternal Mystery may have said what he or she said.

However, that is not the only possible meaning of what Eternal Mystery said. If what Eternal Mystery meant by non-submissive individuals was "individuals who do not experience submissive urges, and are not interested in submitting" then the statement becomes significantly more difficult to prove. This is possibly correct, but it likely describes an extreme minority of consensual M/s relationships as well as potentially some abusive relationships. In the consensual dynamic, this could mean that some individuals are not submissive by their own desires, but rather that they have decided to behave submissively in order to be in a relationship with their partners. Presumably, these non-submissive individuals care deeply for their partners, and have decided that regardless of their own desires (which do not include a desire to submit to their partners) they will become submissive (or at the very least more submissive) in order to continue a relationship with the partners that they care so much about. However, again this dynamic leaves open a route for unilateral exploitation. An abusive individual could "force" his or her potential partner into becoming more submissive through physical abuse, threatening to terminate the relationship if the partner in question does not become submissive, or many other abusive or coercive stratagems. As such, I am less comfortable with agreeing with this particular dynamic of a BDSM relationship, as it stands a heavy chance of being influenced by undue manipulation or coercion and thus a higher chance of being abusive. So, while it is technically possible for an individual top decide to submit to his or her partner for the purposes of continuing a relationship despite having no desire to submit, I think that this dynamic is likely more prone to abuse than other dynamics, and represents such a minority of BDSM practitioners that is should not be considered in examples of typical BDSM relationships. However, Eternal Mystery is correct in asserting that such a relationship is technically possible.

However, there is yet another wrinkle in this relationship dynamic: That being that the decision to submit to one's partner in order to continue a relationship may be considered (or misjudged as the case may be) as an admission of some sort of submissive desire in the context of the relationship (similar to how the switch in the first example behaves) even if the submissive desire does not occur outside the relationship. It is also possible that this desire to submit for purposes of maintaining the relationship could represent a more dominant desire for control- in that the partner chooses to submit in order to control when the relationship ends (when the partner chooses to stop submitting- so the exact role of the desire in question become yet more complicated when that is taken into account. As such, it can be asserted that these individuals may be interested in submitting for their own reasons (whatever these reasons may be) and thus that they are in fact inclined to be submissives- if only due to the relationship in question. Do these individuals qualify as submissive in general? To some the may, to others they may not. Personally, I see those who submit for purposes of maintaining a relationship in a more nuanced light: Some are Dominant in that they wish to control the path of the relationship, while others are submissive in that they are submitting to continue the relationship (and potentially to please their partner and themselves through the vehicle of said relationship). I do not think that these individuals are vanilla (and thus not interested in dominance or submission in any way) by definition, and thus both agree and disagree that these individuals could be considered non-submissive individuals. So, I think Eternal Mystery is both right and wrong if what he or she meant by non-submissive individuals was "individuals who do not experience submissive urges and have no desire to submit". It depends on the case.

BiB, "littles" are submissives in a BDSM, M/s, D/s, etc. context that identify as younger than their own age. This includes little girls (adult female submissives who behave as though they are children), little boys (male submissive who behave as though they are children, generally from ages 5-16 though some can be older and some can be younger). The most common type of BDSM relationship that includes littles is the DD/lg relationship dynamic which general includes a Dominant partner that is the "Daddy Dominant" (or DD) and the submissive partner who is a "little girl" (or lg). If you have any further questions on littles, I encourage you to make a post asking them- the topic is fairly complex and I do not believe that littles are the current topic of conversation on this particular thread.

Best wishes to all,

-MJH
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby BiB » Sat May 23, 2015 5:02 pm

MJH2013 wrote:
BiB, "littles" are submissives in a BDSM, M/s, D/s, etc. context that identify as younger than their own age. This includes little girls (adult female submissives who behave as though they are children), little boys (male submissive who behave as though they are children, generally from ages 5-16 though some can be older and some can be younger).
-MJH

:cry: Im scarried

No no, no questions more
-------

Sorry for my English, Im not a native.
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby slave_girl » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:47 pm

I had honestly forgotten about this post for a while, and many things have changed since I have posted it. When I posted this topic, I was unemployed and climbing the walls trying to find something to fill my time. There are only so many domestic things a girl can do for Master in one day. Now that I'm employed, the deep desire to try to fill my time with other submissive company has subsided a bit. Master and I are focusing on moving forward in our life together, and we are house hunting! It's going to be a good time! :D Master and I are becoming better people together, and I am so blessed.

The tea service that I produced for those submissives was excellent! Since then, I have produced two more tea services for assorted groups. There is so much interest in my area, and I had no idea!

For those who wanted a reading list I suggest looking at any book written by Robert J. Rubel. The first book I read from him was Protocols for the Female Slave. It's excellent, and it's completely service oriented. He also just published a new series of books called the Mastery series. Also, I always recommend SM 101 by Jay Wiseman. There's also a new book called The Ultimate Guide to Kink. I believe it was a compilation of pieces from multiple offers.

For those who wanted to be mentored, unfortunately my life changed in such a drastic way since this post, I would not be able to dedicate time to online conversations. I'm sorry if this has turned into false advertisement.

To Ada: Thank you for saying the things that I should have been the one to say. Unfortunately, my lack of patience and personal investment in my lifestyle make it more difficult for me to maintain enough distance from the subject to remain professional. I deeply appreciate your moderation of this forum.

To Callalily: I don't know if you remember, but we've butted heads over these things before. I honestly don't know why you seek out to read things that I've written when you know that they trigger you. However, I want you to know that it's okay if you never become okay with the BDSM lifestyle. I know that I'm participating in a fringe lifestyle. I know that in some areas S/M and even the idea of human property is illegal, and it's considered immoral. I know that I am comparable to other fringe lifestyles that involve violence.

To be completely honest, I don't care! I'm functioning. I'm healthy. I have a dependent personality, and I found a narcissist to meet my needs. I acknowledged the truth of who I was, and I sought out my match. My life is amazing. The adjective that best describes me is the word relentless. I'm never going to stop living my life this way. I won't stop even under the threat of social disgrace or legal repercussions.

When we first had this discussion, I was willing to claim ignorance on your behalf. Since then, you've obviously been doing research, but you're still coloring the information the way you want to see it. You don't ever have to be okay with what I do, but what you have to accept is I absolutely love my life. I'm not a victim. I am powerful enough to put my palms, knees and forehead to the floor in reverence to a chosen Master. When I am at his feet, I am ten feet tall.

To Levi: If you would like to participate in submission to explore your desires, I suggest you choose a domestic act that you enjoy, and focus on the submission of the service to someone else. Maybe you could produce a formal dinner. Invite friends over, and insist on doing all of the cooking and cleaning. Formal dinners are very fun, require deep thought, and typically guests really enjoy that type of service. Formal dinners many not be kinky, but it has submissive intent! Your intent is everything. A submissive act produced with an angry heart will never succeed.

To those of you who have responded to this post with your knowledge and wisdom, thank you so much. I appreciate that, even if your point of view is not pro-kink, you aren't tearing me down.
"He is Master, and I am slave. He is Owner, and I am owned. He commands, and I obey. He is to be pleased, and I am to please. Why is this? Because he is Master and I am slave."
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby Callalily » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:01 am

slave_girl wrote:I have a dependent personality, and I found a narcissist to meet my needs.


Thank you, thank you, thank you for acknowledging this. That is really all that I needed to know. My ghost can rest now.
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Re: I want to teach! Possibly...

Postby Callalily » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:44 pm

slave_girl, I doubt you will ever read this, but I owe you a very big apology.

You were right that I was misunderstanding things, although I promise it wasn't intentional. I think the problem is that BDSM behaviors and power dynamics and language overlap that in abusive relationships. What separates them is invisible from the outside. The feelings and motivations and what you called "colors."

I'm a sub like you. It's only ever been exploited, so I decided it was bad, and I decided anyone who liked it about me was bad. I read a lot and a few weeks ago I came upon this https://kinkylittlegirl.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/having-a-ds-relationship-why-she-wants-to-be-submissive/. It made me realize that a man can enjoy his partner's submissiveness without disrespecting or abusing her.

Here are some of the realizations I have since come to, although I am barely starting out.

  • BDSM relationships originate in love and pleasure. They are erotic. Many of the words used -- ownership, property, training, breaking, rape, Master, Slave, whore, slut -- are used for their erotic power. These same words, when applied to abusive relationships, take on very different meanings. In BDSM we say them because they feel good. They are positive words.

  • An abusive person either hurts because it makes him feel powerful or because he's more interested in his own pleasure than the needs of his partner. A Dom/Sadist hurts because it's his way of expressing love; hurting her is the purest expression of his desire for her. His partner is as much a part of the experience as he is. He will not enjoy giving pain to someone who doesn't want it. When he finds a Sub/Masochist who craves and cherishes his way of dominating her, it's like two people speaking a language only the other understands.

  • BDSM is about accepting another person as they are, and -- if she desires it -- helping her to deepen her own understanding of herself and coaching her toward the things she wants. It is not about one person training another to be what he wants, or educating her, or rebuilding her in his image, or assuming control of her life. The Dom and the Sub respect and admire each other as equals and expect one another to behave as adults.

  • An abusive relationship is entirely one sided: one person takes while the other person gives. A Dom/Sadist cares about his Submissive's needs, feelings, health, sanity. He feels blessed by what she is and honored by the gift her submission represents. Perhaps he has spent his life hiding his desires, accustomed to women who endured or barely tolerated them. He is grateful to have found someone who enthusiastically appreciates them and wants to fan the flames. She is his dance partner and his canvas and his audience at once.

  • The Sub too is grateful. She also may never have had her gifts appreciated. Her dom recognizes how precious and sacred this thing is to her, what she is offering. He allows her the freedom to give and give without having to fear that he will take everything. Daily he lets her rehearse the ritual she finds most comforting: I trust, I let myself fall, and I am caught and held safe.

  • BDSM is exciting and fun! It is a game, improv theater, a work of art two people create together; an imaginary world that can feel realer than this one. It requires a great deal of creativity and imagination from both parties. There are no passive partners or you're doing it wrong. :wink:

I realize you were trying to help me see these things, and you did, once I was able to let myself see them! So you did teach me after all. Thank you for that. I hope you are well.
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