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"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

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"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby EllaBlack » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:39 am

Fair, but this self-reflection is non-existent when certain variables are added into the equation..

For example, a son is murdered and the mother sees to it that the killer meets the same fate at her hands.. He "deserved it" because of the life he took and the immense pain he thus caused to other lives in the process..

I get it because I can relate to it, but you guys here on the forum don't and never will unless the proper wiring for that is in place, so this is essentially useless beyond analysis for its own sake.. This forum in general is useless for all of you beyond that reason and the other reason of egocentric pursuits relative to image..

I think that some of you are severely emotionally disturbed, while others appear to have a total disconnect, based on what you all write and how you write.. but that's also not enough to go on to have a well-informed opinion..

Everyone here is concerned with image, but I think the motives for that vary.. Some of you do what you do because it inherently makes sense, while others act the way they do to avoid appearing vulnerable.. The vulnerable ones have developed the attitude they have in order to avoid pain and discomfort, while the invulnerable ones always had the attitude they have..

So, that's my significantly uninformed opinion.. Feel free to state whether you agree or disagree.
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:55 am

"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me" can also be enabling and codependent - both of which, lack the implied altruism underlying the statement.

"I [The Host] am not going to set a boundary" or "I'll martyr myself" "because I don't want them [The Feeder] to feel rejected the way I did when somebody didn't meet the unreasonable demands I placed upon them."

And enabling people / codependency, is usually just an attempt to avoid discomfort or guilt ------ or to control and cope with fear of conflict or fear of rejection/abandonment/being alone (at its core).

Or invertedly, The Feeder can rely on The Host to uphold "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me", turning their own belief against them for effortless gain.

Again, why I like Eric Berne's "Transactional Analysis" and "Games" concepts. A perspective that is not allowed in today's extremist feminist politically correct culture
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby solemnlysworn » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:15 pm

I'll make sure to read some Berne before Christmas
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:19 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:I'll make sure to read some Berne before Christmas


You'll be through his books in the blink of an eye if you choose to go through them.
Bear in mind that they were written in the 1960's or 70's.

I found the the title to be a bit of a let down when compared to the limited content, but it illustrates the concept of "games"

Games People Play

http://rrt2.neostrada.pl/mioduszewska/c ... ding_3.pdf
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby EllaBlack » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:36 pm

It all comes down to empathy and whether you have it or not.. Lacking empathy isn't necessarily uncommon, but lacking it altogether is.. I don't lack it altogether.. I have a strong need to be dominant though and I lack mercy for my competition.. I'll also act in antisocial ways to accomplish my goals in life, like being rich and influential.. Wealth and influence are what I aspire for most in life.. The need to be dominant is more reactionary.
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby EllaBlack » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:57 pm

I would say that my connection to my conscience is weak.. I find myself not seeing any use in it or understanding why I should follow it a lot of times.. I don't even know why it's there, and it tends to be a nuisance. I feel like it's something that was conditioned into me, but not something that needs to be there for any particular reason.

I have conditional empathy and I'm self-critical when I look back and disagree with my reasoning for hurting someone.. If it was based on poor judgement or assumptions that weren't true, I think, "Wow, you're an idiot!" and I feel irritated.. But, I'm able to disregard people's feelings, ownership, rights, boundaries.. Even people I like, if it will get me something valuable.
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby Sarandipity » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:40 pm

DaturaInnoxia wrote:"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me" can also be enabling and codependent - both of which, lack the implied altruism underlying the statement.

"I [The Host] am not going to set a boundary" or "I'll martyr myself" "because I don't want them [The Feeder] to feel rejected the way I did when somebody didn't meet the unreasonable demands I placed upon them."

And enabling people / codependency, is usually just an attempt to avoid discomfort or guilt ------ or to control and cope with fear of conflict or fear of rejection/abandonment/being alone (at its core).

Or invertedly, The Feeder can rely on The Host to uphold "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me", turning their own belief against them for effortless gain.

Again, why I like Eric Berne's "Transactional Analysis" and "Games" concepts. A perspective that is not allowed in today's extremist feminist politically correct culture


Why is transactional analysis anti feminist or against political correctness? It's about ego states. I didn't know people held umbridge with this.
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby Schwärmer » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:50 pm

"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Anyone attempting to navigate life in this fashion is going to come up short and constantly disappointed. There is nothing achieved here. They walk away empty, never doing anything, while having it repeatedly done to them.
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:52 pm

EllaBlack wrote:It all comes down to empathy and whether you have it or not.


I knew where you were going with the topic
It's just that people often think or pretend they feel empathy when they don't - and people see others indulging in sentimentalism and emotional appeal and sigh, thinking to themselves, "s/he has too big of a heart - it gets the poor thing into trouble."

Sarandipity wrote:
DaturaInnoxia wrote:Again, why I like Eric Berne's "Transactional Analysis" and "Games" concepts. A perspective that is not allowed in today's extremist feminist politically correct culture


Why is transactional analysis anti feminist or against political correctness? It's about ego states. I didn't know people held umbridge with this.

^
It's more than the ego states.
^
Many psychologists and pyschotherapists still like the concept of Parent : Adult : Child Ego States.
I like them on a superficial level rather than going to the depth of adapting Freud's Id : Ego : Super Ego like he was aiming for.

Many of the 'Games' (aka 'Social Intercourse') that he describes along with the 'Social Strokes' that make up transactional analysis (TA) imply that everything they do has a pay off that they (occasionally inadvertedly) seek.

To suggest, as I did, that a codependent actually gets something out of, and perpetuates, being taken advantage of or harmed would be a 'Transaction' involving 'Social Strokes' - both terms are (or used to be) a huge component of Berne's TA. 

It means that all parties participate rather than it happening to them: unassumingly and unsuspecting.

*** He has one 'Game' that can be paraphrased to the tune of:

- She pushes him away and gets angry, saying "That's all you want from me!"

- After a few scornful rejections, he gives up and stops asking for sex.

- She starts being more and more of a tease (me using that term in itself, is no longer politically correct and victim blaming thus antifeminist)

- Sexual tension builds up

- He is hopeful and assumes that it's an invitation

- She rejects him again outraged, "See?! That's all you ever want from me! You don't love me!"
- sometimes in ends in her being sexually assaulted (and then sometimes, out of guilt and shame, he buys her something pretty and expensive).

- and so the 'Game' continues.
_____ 

That being said, I don't think all of Berne's 'games' are on the mark.

I see them more as generalized stencils.

I also think it's rare that people who don't end up victimized repetitively in the same way are playing 'Games' nor do I necessarily think they're getting much of a pay off.

____

Regardless, today's Politically Correct = Pro-Feminist

Victim Blaming = Anti-feminist

Accepting Responsibility or Looking at Your Part in Things:

= Victim Blaming

= Antifeminist

= Not Politically Correct
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Re: "I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me"

Postby Reaper » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:26 pm

"I wouldn't do that because I wouldn't want it done to me" is not a statement I can relate to.

If I want to do something to someone, I do it. It doesn't matter that I wouldn't want it done to me because that thought doesn't even enter my mind. I'm not sure why it even enters anyone else's mind. Who's to say it would ever be done to you anyway? You're not them and they're not you.

My daughter and I had an argument about this very subject awhile ago. She said I should treat people the way I'd want to be treated, and not hurt them. She said, "Put yourself in their shoes. You wouldn't want that done to you". I replied, "But I'm not them"

There was more to it than that, but I can't remember exactly how the argument went. I couldn't relate to her way of thinking and she couldn't relate to mine, so the argument basically went nowhere.
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