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Agree or Disagree?

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Agree or Disagree?

Postby salles » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:42 pm

Came across this today in a psychology article.
When you feel the pain of another's heartbreak, or the joy of someone else's success imagine that taken away and you will have a small idea of what it is like to live with ASPD.

Followed by this quote:

''He who feels nothing is an empty man'' - Aristotle.

I am not sure I agree that it necessarily means emptiness. If you have never felt what they describe joy/pain how do you know what you are missing? I think emptiness can only happen if one has felt joy. It would have to be relative?
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby solemnlysworn » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:55 pm

This time last year, we had quite a useful discussion about this on the forum that lead to me revising how I use the word empty, since it was the word of choice for a long time and the issue you talked about was pointed out to me. A lot of people employ the idea of 'emptiness' which implies a hole or gap and as though there is depth there where you feel a gaping missing something.

The idea of being shallow is probably more apt

I managed to find the crux of the conversation on the forum, though most of it was in PM

solemnlysworn wrote:I took a long time to figure out that people with BPD experience an emptiness that is negative in affect and use to escape that. It’s a gaping hole. It has its own essence. Different to the kind of emptiness I usually experience which is more like lack of sensation and wanting to heighten everything
xcagedsilhouttex wrote:In order for something go be hollow or empty, it must have the capacity to be filled. That's how I understand the BPD hollow which is like a chasm wanting to be filled or the memory of being whole versus the nothings which is just that - nothing.
solemnlysworn wrote:That’s true. I think people also have an intuitive sense of that as well. If I say I’m empty or shut off when people ask why I’m the way I am, they generally are more forgiving than if I say go Bateman and say “I simply am not there.”


antisocial-personality/topic210259.html < from this thread
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby salles » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:28 pm

^^ Got it !
Yes .. using the term 'shallow' is definitely more apt.

Your description of 'emptiness' and that of xcagedsilhoutte are interesting and both so different.
1. lack of sensation and wanting to heighten everything
My ex was like this in a major way. He was a hardcore addict ( clean now) . Perhaps it is a common trait in addicts ? I have a minor tendency towards it.

2. the memory of being whole versus the nothings which is just that - nothing.
I def. relate to this description. Again I think it may be linked to having certain addictive patterns and experiences around that; not necessarily drug addiction, but also addiction to a certain way of thinking, feeling...
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby solemnlysworn » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:38 pm

Yeah. Mine is definitely more along the lines of 'shallow', needing to seek outside the self. Hollowness implies depth and an echoing or reverberation that's uncomfortable, I think, when noticed.

I'd tentatively argue that most of the time AsPD vs BPD will fall in line with Shallow vs Hollow. I'm not sure about other disorders. I did ask before and perhaps it's rude to pester but I wonder what disorder if any you might identify with most
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby ZeroZ » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:28 pm

I think the emptiness feeling has a lot to do with identity issues also, not just a lack of emotion. Borderlines have strong emotions, too strong but still feel empty inside. Emptiness can also be described by the person as feeling like someone is missing from their life but they don’t know what that is. ASPD develops in somewhat normal people, aside from have certain genetic risk factors, so in a sense there probably was at one time everything a normal person has and through whatever reason the mind started to shut down certain areas.
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby solemnlysworn » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:12 pm

ZeroZ wrote:ASPD develops in somewhat normal people, aside from have certain genetic risk factors, so in a sense there probably was at one time everything a normal person has and through whatever reason the mind started to shut down certain areas.


I think it's fair to say that this is sometimes true but I don't think that it's always true.

-- Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:13 pm --



-- Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:16 pm --

Hollow people just want to be whole again, hmm?
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby salles » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:39 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:I'd tentatively argue that most of the time AsPD vs BPD will fall in line with Shallow vs Hollow. I'm not sure about other disorders. I did ask before and perhaps it's rude to pester but I wonder what disorder if any you might identify with most

I must have missed your asking me.
Schizoid mostly. But I have gone through phases of being not typically schizoid esp in the past when I drank and did more drugs. I was once diagnosed with bi-polar ( #######4!) :roll:
="ZeroZ"]I think the emptiness feeling has a lot to do with identity issues also, not just a lack of emotion.

Yes, I think so too.
And I think loneliness ( not the kind that craves company) can often be confused with emptiness,

Borderlines have strong emotions, too strong but still feel empty inside.

They are probably the most complicated of all to figure out and the most naturally manipulative imo.
Emptiness can also be described by the person as feeling like someone is missing from their life but they don’t know what that is.

That's why I think sometimes it can be like an existential loneliness. One cannot put their finger on what it is. I guess it is the reason so many turn to God, thinking it may be a spiritual void.
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:19 am

salles wrote:Came across this today in a psychology article.
When you feel the pain of another's heartbreak, or the joy of someone else's success imagine that taken away and you will have a small idea of what it is like to live with ASPD.

Followed by this quote:

''He who feels nothing is an empty man'' - Aristotle.

I am not sure I agree that it necessarily means emptiness. If you have never felt what they describe joy/pain how do you know what you are missing? I think emptiness can only happen if one has felt joy. It would have to be relative?


Link to the article?

The quotes like that arouse in me; a desire to put a pillow over the face of whoever wrote it, and sit on it.

He whose fart smells like sh1t, needs to sh1t. - Abrabert lincolnstien.
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby salles » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:38 am

Squaredonutwheels wrote:Link to the article?

The quotes like that arouse in me; a desire to put a pillow over the face of whoever wrote it, and sit on it.

He whose fart smells like sh1t, needs to sh1t. - Abrabert lincolnstien.


:) Your quote at least matches the point you are making.

The article was interesting until the editor added his own thoughts. In the conclusion part.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Motivation_and_emotion/Book/2010/Antisocial_personality_disorder
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Re: Agree or Disagree?

Postby justonemoreperson » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:42 am

@OP

It's not possible to feel nothing, or you'd have no neurotransmitters flowing through your brain and you'd be dead. The whole happy / sad thing about other people's success or failures, that's an odd one.

I like it when people I'm invested in are successful, my kids for example. Maybe it's not the same "level" as everyone else, I don't know.

In reality though, my experience is that people are only really happy for someone else's success or sad about their failure if they're ultimately linked to them and it reflects on them.

People get mildly irritated by facebook, for example, because it tends to make everyone look like they're living exciting, action-packed lives, when in reality they're sitting in their underwear, watching Netflix.

As a species, we seem more intimidated by others' success than happy for it, to the point where Nelson Mandela had to say, "Never dim your lights to save those who shine less brightly" or words to that effect.

People often play down their success for the sake of humility (which is seen as a virtue), and those who boast are seen as braggers and disliked.

So, as much as we like to think we support the successful and pity the weak, in reality we're jealous of the successful and feel comforted by those who fail.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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