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Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

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Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby HSS » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:03 pm

People are divided/ have an inner fight; on one side there is what they judge good in themselves, that is mostly conscious, on the other side there is what they judge badly, that's mostly unconscious.

I guess that you easily see people's unconscious traits. Do you identify with these traits? How do you react to the fact that people ostracize or deny them?
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby Seili » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:37 pm

Perhaps that's just your fight.

And you can't control people being something they are not.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby salles » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:27 pm

HSS wrote:
I guess that you easily see people's unconscious traits. Do you identify with these traits? How do you react to the fact that people ostracize or deny them?

Narcissists are obviously expert at identifying hidden and dual aspects in another's nature. When I observe victims of N's I actually think it is not that they are vulnerable or victims, but that they have traits ( maybe subconscious, maybe not) that an N can actually identify with example shame, low self esteem, sensitivity to humiliation. Many ''''victims'''would deny this.
I am not sure how an aspd mind identifies or recognises subconscious traits in another, especially when the other probably isn't aware they exist, let alone that they are denial of certain aspects of personality.
Perhaps if said person is more difficult to manipulate than others, a pw ASPD may put effort into this, but my guess is they couldn't be aarsed spending much time thinking to that extent about another.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby Reaper » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:38 pm

salles wrote:I am not sure how an aspd mind identifies or recognises subconscious traits in another, especially when the other probably isn't aware they exist


By reading their body language. A person's body language often has a mind of it's own.

let alone that they are denial of certain aspects of personality.


I'd like to think that I'm not in denial of any aspect of my personality, but I don't think I'm self-aware enough to be fully aware of every aspect.

salles wrote:Perhaps if said person is more difficult to manipulate than others, a pw ASPD may put effort into this, but my guess is they couldn't be aarsed spending much time thinking to that extent about another.


Most people really aren't difficult to manipulate. Even a psychopath can be manipulated.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby solemnlysworn » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:08 am

salles wrote:I am not sure how an aspd mind identifies or recognises subconscious traits in another, especially when the other probably isn't aware they exist, let alone that they are denial of certain aspects of personality.
Perhaps if said person is more difficult to manipulate than others, a pw ASPD may put effort into this, but my guess is they couldn't be aarsed spending much time thinking to that extent about another.


The willingness to manipulate is probably sufficient. I'm not sure that any extra insight is necessary.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby salles » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:26 am

Reaper wrote:Most people really aren't difficult to manipulate. Even a psychopath can be manipulated.


Yes, it could be said that people with aspd traits have triggers that are easy to identify and a certain amount of predictability. But, because they are manipulators themselves, I think they recognise when they are being manipulated; depends on their intelligence levels and skill level of manipulator.

Then, some personality traits and or disorders entail being indifferent to praise or criticism eg. SPD and therefore harder to manipulate.

In general, I reckon you are right.

However a true psychopath ( serial killer comes to mind ) is by nature mistrustful and would recognise manipulation. They may play along with it if there is something to be gained from going along with it. But, otherwise no.

Why would you want to manipulate a psychopath unless it is to kill someone for you?

Can a paid assassin be truly called a psychopath?
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:18 am

Consciously, you reason / justify what you do against what you've been taught to recognise as successful behaviour. Not right and wrong, just what has been seen as successful, which in most cases is also deemed "good" as it corresponds with a lack of punishment.

A good example of this, if you've seen it, is the character of Frank Gallagher in the US version of Shameless. Despicable individual, but able to justify and reason all of his behaviour from a moral point of view, albeit for the purpose of manipulation.

Consciously, only the person themselves know what the truth is, but they can give hints to its 'truth' by the subconscious (or experience).

Sub-consciously, only others see these and we don't see them ourselves unless they're pointed out. There's no 'big problem' that's apparent to others, just a stream of minor inconsistencies that create an image of deceit and concern.

Things like:
Not remembering that someone is going through a serious problem.
Being unreliable.
Stories not matching.
Inappropriate response to serious situations.
Not recognising the severity of a situation.
Lying.
Changing opinions of people quickly.
Attachment and perception of others based on reward.
People flipping; showing deep interest in someone and then cutting them off.
Becoming different people to different people.
Inconsistency in values / likes / dislikes depending on audience.
Inconsistency in loyalty.
Fake emotion.

All of the above are seen either through experience or by others noticing it through body language. Intuition often plucks the strings of your paranoia to tell you something isn't "right," even if you can't tell exactly what it is, but it will be the subtle body language / facial movement that demonstrates the above, depending on how good you are.

This is something I've noticed over the years. Some people are better at identifying it than others. I can be with a group of people telling a story or whatever and I can tell that someone isn't buying the behaviour. They're not laughing or joining in with the rest and I can see suspicion on their face.

Not a massive issue, as I'm not doing or saying anything "wrong." It's just that they're recognising some unconscious inconsistency in my behaviour that the others are not. It's also easy to fix, a simple but sincere conversation with the person concerned, if done properly, is enough to have them doubting their own perception enough.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby Reaper » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:05 am

salles wrote:Yes, it could be said that people with aspd traits have triggers that are easy to identify and a certain amount of predictability. But, because they are manipulators themselves, I think they recognise when they are being manipulated; depends on their intelligence levels and skill level of manipulator.


That's true, but having AsPD does not make one impervious to manipulation, regardless of their level of intelligence. It's just not as easy as with someone of lower intelligence.

Then, some personality traits and or disorders entail being indifferent to praise or criticism eg. SPD and therefore harder to manipulate.


There are many different forms of manipulation. Using praise or criticism is not the only way to manipulate someone.

In general, I reckon you are right.

However a true psychopath ( serial killer comes to mind ) is by nature mistrustful and would recognise manipulation. They may play along with it if there is something to be gained from going along with it. But, otherwise no.


Psychopaths can be harder to manipulate, but it's certainly not impossible. Not all psychopaths are intelligent enough to see when they're being manipulated.

Why would you want to manipulate a psychopath unless it is to kill someone for you?


To play a game of cat and mouse with them, of course. To fuk with their head before killing them.

Why would I want a psychopath to kill someone for me when I can do that myself.

Can a paid assassin be truly called a psychopath?


Are you saying that a psychopath could never be a paid assassin? Do you really think that's not a job that might appeal to some.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby Sarandipity » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:21 am

Can a paid a assassin truly be called a psychopath?

My opinion is that a paid assassin could be a psychopath but also could not be.

They could be trained, it's literally a job and will not kill unless paid. It then becomes clinical, lacks sadism and it's like any other job where a service is provided.

No doubt there are also psychopathic individuals who kill for money. That's ok if they keep it strictly proffessional but if they get too into the actual killing because they enjoy the killing for the sake of killing then it can get messy, become unprofessional and they become a liability.

However many psychopaths, apparently, will only seek activity where there is personal gain and seek to avoid being caught. So as long as they are in a professional capacity and not drawing out the kill for some other gain other than financial then they make good assassins.

So an assassin could be a psychopath or could be a highly trained individual who simply does it for money. How they align that with their conscience is variable I'm guessing. They may be particular on who they kill or they have a lowest price where they feel it's not worth to kill below a given price. Where a psychopath might have less care in either regard but they could be equally as proffessional - or not.

Imo could be either.
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Re: Do you identify in people's ostracized, subconscious parts?

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:30 am

Sarandipity wrote:
So an assassin could be a psychopath or could be a highly trained individual who simply does it for money. How they align that with their conscience is variable I'm guessing. They may be particular on who they kill or they have a lowest price where they feel it's not worth to kill below a given price. Where a psychopath might have less care in either regard but they could be equally as proffessional - or not.

Imo could be either.


Conscience isn't the issue, the issue is the rest of the bag of nonsense that comes along with it. Faulure to maintain the discipline and impulse control that would lead to stupid mistakes, over-confidence and failure to assess risks.

That's the problem with discussing this from a hypothetical point of view; it excludes the day-to-day reality of what it would be like.
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