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Criminal underworlds

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Criminal underworlds

Postby salles » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:29 am

This was an interesting question from sarandipity in the politics thread.
The undercurrent of how the criminal underworld works in a country say alot about the country?

The level of violence used as opposed to well thought out logistics may be revealing. The motivation may also be revealing. eg. financial ? political?
The Irish, Italians, Russians have a notorious reputation for organised gang crime activity, yet the countries with the highest crime rates in the world are actually Venezuela, Papua new guinea, South Africa.
Obviously high poverty levels and lack of employment contribute to Venezuela's high crime stats.
It is harder to decipher why a small country like Ireland has such a high level of organised gang activity. I would imagine that although economically, the country is doing well, people have a historical propensity for crime. The IRA once devoted to the cause for a united Ireland, seems to have adapted its skill set quite easily to drug running, people smuggling...etc..
The lowest crime rates are in Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Japan, and New Zealand. These countries generally have stricter gun laws and a more effective law enforcement.

It would be interesting, to know the cultural background statistics on those diagnosed with aspd.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:31 am

A couple of trends I've noticed; not sure if they match with the stats:

Highly socialist countries tend to have lower crime rates; capitalist ones tend to be higher. Sweden hasn't got any local homeless people; they're all taken care of and the crime rate is very low.

Where Capitalism works is in very cash-rich countries, where there's a strong moral code. Countries like Saudi Arabia, etc. By far the safest place you'll ever walk around at night.

Most other places in general seem to have less crime against the person the more f*cked up the country is. Countries that are or have been affected by war tend to have people who are more socially minded towards others than countries who are arguing over McD's versus Burger King.

Seems to be that the more people-focused the culture, the better the social code and the lower the crime rate. The more object or material focus the country has, the worse it's crime rate. Obvious really.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby Seili » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:59 am

Unfortunately, Sweden is not the prime example it is often used for, nor is it here. Their homelessness rate is threefold compared to us, or Denmark. The difference is obvious if you visit Sweden.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:34 am

Seili wrote:Unfortunately, Sweden is not the prime example it is often used for, nor is it here. Their homelessness rate is threefold compared to us, or Denmark. The difference is obvious if you visit Sweden.


I go to Sweden probably once every two years. The homeless issue in Sweden is 'imported homeless' for organised crime, mainly from Russia for begging. You don't find homeless citizens.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby Seili » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:02 am

I've been there many many times myself. Statistically they're just not among the best.
There are always people who fall through social support systems like theirs and ours.
I think those beggars are from Romania and they're not in the statistics, at least over here they're not. But immigrants applying for citizenship are. Everyone's equal.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby salles » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:38 am

justonemoreperson wrote: Sweden hasn't got any local homeless people; they're all taken care of and the crime rate is very low.

Rape and sexual assault is increasing, but manslaughter and murder remains very low.
justonemoreperson wrote:Countries like Saudi Arabia, etc. By far the safest place you'll ever walk around at night.

as long as you are not LGBTQ :)
Also as a woman, it is still recommended to wear an abaya or loose conservative clothing. But I would be fine with that and dress conservatively anyway. In fact I would Love to wear a hijab. Dead cool.
justonemoreperson wrote:Countries that are or have been affected by war tend to have people who are more socially minded towards others than countries who are arguing over McD's versus Burger King.

Yes. For a while.

justonemoreperson wrote:
Seili wrote:Unfortunately, Sweden is not the prime example it is often used for, nor is it here. Their homelessness rate is threefold compared to us, or Denmark. The difference is obvious if you visit Sweden.


I go to Sweden probably once every two years. The homeless issue in Sweden is 'imported homeless' for organised crime, mainly from Russia for begging. You don't find homeless citizens.


Same here. Romanians using their kids and members with deformed limbs to attract sympathy and money while begging. Those with grotesque disfigurations probably have a high value as beggars.
They have a large organised crime ring that mainly involves theft and social security fraud. Some ringleaders have been investigated and found to be living in 5 star hotels in the city.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:48 am

salles wrote:as long as you are not LGBTQ :)


A few years ago I was in Riyadh discussing this idea with a guy from work, who was a very traditional Saudi. The idea that we tolerate gay people was incomprehensible to him; not that he just didn't agree, he simply couldn't understand why it wasn't seen as a punishable offence.

The same with religion. He assumed that I was a Christian and when I told him I had no religion he couldn't believe I didn't believe in god, to the point where he thought I was teasing him.

Once thing he did say though, which struck a chord regarding their view on punishment. He said, "We punish the criminal, not the victim. Any woman can walk around in complete security and if anything is seen to be illegal, everyone rushes to stop it."

Also as a woman, it is still recommended to wear an abaya or loose conservative clothing. But I would be fine with that and dress conservatively anyway. In fact I would Love to wear a hijab. Dead cool.


I think it has the opposite effect to what they're hoping; they're clearly not aware of the prevalence of nuns in the porn industry.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby Sarandipity » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:18 pm

I didn't mean to be offensive with my question, I was watching police shows nearly all day (because I'm currently forced to a bum - i wrote to the government to complain about it) and i thought it might be an interesting topic here. I'm glad you liked the topic and I'm sorry if it was phrased offensively. I was also concerned that the mod may have offended people who identified as demons - joke - because you can basically identify as anything now days.

What I watched, that made me laugh and consider this was a guy trying to rob a shop with a hammer.

In this country there is a support system if you are a bum (it's good on many levels I just disagree with the specifics that are currently effecting me, I will work a way around them).

So the guy with the hammer didn't look like he really wanted to hit the shop keeper with it. The shop keeper did really want to keep his money.

And I thought, the hammer guy doesn't want the money enough to hurt the other guy, not worth the jail time. But, as said, if it was somewhere like South Africa that shop guy would of been dead (or he'd of had a gun and shot the robber). And it started me thinking about crime generally. How organised crime reflects on a country. In Japan I imagine the crime to be so organized that it works with government so the statistics are low. In Saudi the penalties are so high it puts people off. After I wrote it I realised America does have its own home grown organised network and somebody did point that out.

My view on governments is that if they have the money and they're smart enough they make it so there's enough help that most people aren't forced to crime and keep their statistics low. The police shows I watched were mostly domestic incidents... They promise so much, raids etc and then it's all domestics. Except the hammer guy who couldn't really be bothered to do what it took to get the money.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby salles » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:22 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:I think it has the opposite effect to what they're hoping; they're clearly not aware of the prevalence of nuns in the porn industry.

:lol:
justonemoreperson wrote:A few years ago I was in Riyadh discussing this idea with a guy from work, who was a very traditional Saudi. The idea that we tolerate gay people was incomprehensible to him; not that he just didn't agree, he simply couldn't understand why it wasn't seen as a punishable offence.

My sociopathic cousins, two of whom are dead now, witnessed a beheading in Riyadh when they were young ( pre-teen). Their father worked as an engineer there many years ago and the family visited him for a while. I must ask the living one more about this, as I have just remembered it. :o
Sarandipity wrote:he police shows I watched were mostly domestic incidents... They promise so much, raids etc and then it's all domestics. Except the hammer guy who couldn't really be bothered to do what it took to get the money.

Well, domestic violence does account for a huge percent of homicides; women being the usual victim.
''More than 50% of female homicides are committed by former or current intimate partners in the US. ''
so I guess it makes sense most of the t.v. series are dominated by this.
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Re: Criminal underworlds

Postby Sarandipity » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:33 pm

salles wrote:
justonemoreperson wrote:I think it has the opposite effect to what they're hoping; they're clearly not aware of the prevalence of nuns in the porn industry.

:lol:
justonemoreperson wrote:A few years ago I was in Riyadh discussing this idea with a guy from work, who was a very traditional Saudi. The idea that we tolerate gay people was incomprehensible to him; not that he just didn't agree, he simply couldn't understand why it wasn't seen as a punishable offence.

My sociopathic cousins, two of whom are dead now, witnessed a beheading in Riyadh when they were young ( pre-teen). Their father worked as an engineer there many years ago and the family visited him for a while. I must ask the living one more about this, as I have just remembered it. :o
Sarandipity wrote:he police shows I watched were mostly domestic incidents... They promise so much, raids etc and then it's all domestics. Except the hammer guy who couldn't really be bothered to do what it took to get the money.

Well, domestic violence does account for a huge percent of homicides; women being the usual victim.
''More than 50% of female homicides are committed by former or current intimate partners in the US. ''
so I guess it makes sense most of the t.v. series are dominated by this.


Yes a friend got murdered by her bf. He only got 12 years but he died or got killed in prison. So yeah it's common.

What I was thinking about more was the dynamics of crime in a country and how it reflects on government. How the government works with (or doesn't) criminals and the overall benefit or loss that is to a country as a whole.

Crime is money. Most probably pay some level of tax after the lesson of Al Capone and launder their money well so it makes sense to work with such a massive industry rather than against it. I wondered particularly about the US because I just don't get the feel that the US government works with that industry where other governments feel like they do on some levels. Perhaps the CIA or the DEA do in some ways but it doesn't seem obvious to me that they do like the general feel I get about other countries. I dunno, I don't have the resources to actually look into that haha it was just a musing.
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