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Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

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Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby rui » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:46 pm

I have a friend who seems to have ASPD in the Nomadic antisocial subtype. They also seem to have social anxiety, they have superficial charm but they also seem to have major adjustment issues with talking to people, they seem to get very afraid of certain situations which makes them leave work or school to go drinking. Their personal relationships are extremely volatile and they often do very malicious things and go into social withdrawal. Does this presentation make sense?
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby Eight » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:06 am

It does to your friend.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:16 am

Within the corrections system, some studies have shown that people with ASPD can have a lot of anxiety and/or depression comorbid with the PD (as with addictions, obviously, which often walks hand in hand with Cluster Bs in general).

They have found treating the comorbidities decreases their chances of commiting of crimes.
^
They found treating this actually works better than things like anger management since their aggression and impulsivity isn't necessarily too connected to actual anger.

The problem is the very low likelihood of them seeking and sticking to treatment along with prejudice and villianization of the individuals on behalf of health service providers.

I haven't learned much about ASPD regarding those who stay outside of the CJS, so I'm interested to hear people's comments if they choose to do so.

I would think anxiety may be unlikely in a psychopathic brain, but developmental psychopathy is considered extremely rare statistically speaking.
- Then again it's not like they can get much info on high functioning ones.

I've seen anxiety manifest as emotional volatility in the form of aggression.
Social anxiety in particular, I have no idea.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:09 am

Interesting.

This makes sense and fits what I've seen.
Social anxiety manifests in different ways though.
I know lots guys who will not go outside without the company of their little group.

Even for me. It takes AGES for me to actually trust someone.

I can count on one hand the people I trust.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby solemnlysworn » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:17 am

I'm not sure that AsPD will ever disqualify anxiety or self-esteem related issues nor depressive episodes.

VCR made this proposition a while back and I'm not sure if there is any great amount of research on it, though I did find one piece that demonstrated anxious and neurotic traits in some with AsPD. I'd have to search through my posts to find it again, probably, since I've forgotten how it was found in the first place
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby Seili » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:22 am

So how do these manifest?

Antisocial personality disorder
Disregard for others' needs or feelings
Persistent lying, stealing, using aliases, conning others
Recurring problems with the law
Repeated violation of the rights of others
Aggressive, often violent behavior
Disregard for the safety of self or others
Impulsive behavior
Consistently irresponsible
Lack of remorse for behavior

There's a difference with asocial and antisocial. Apparently even more so in my language than yours.
It is the mark of an..curious mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby solemnlysworn » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:25 am

Looking at the diagnostic criteria of The DSM:

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.
AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one's ends.
b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.
c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one's actions on others; aggression; sadism.
d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.
2. Disinhibition, characterized by:
a. Irresponsibility: Disregard for – and failure to honor – financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for – and lack of follow-through on – agreements and promises.
b. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.
c. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one's limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.

D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual's developmental stage or sociocultural environment.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

F. The individual is at least age 18 years.


and the ICD

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.


I don't see that any of them conflict with anxiety. Maybe the social anxiety is based on narcissism. Depression could be related to lack of connection with others. I'm not sure that it has to express itself inside the diagnostic traits of AsPD.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby Seili » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:41 am

A personality disorder is a way of thinking, feeling and behaving that deviates from the expectations of the culture, causes distress or problems functioning, and lasts over time.

A person with a personality disorder has trouble perceiving and relating to situations and people.

- Do you?
It is the mark of an..curious mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby solemnlysworn » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:48 am

I only argue that, though what you said last may be true, it doesn't then imply that a personality disorder encapsulates all thoughts, feelings and behaviours and that a diagnosis of ASPD does not exclude the possibility of a criminal who takes advantage of people remorselessly, sufficiently meeting the criteria, also feeling anxiety.

Do you disagree?

-- Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:49 am --

Seili wrote:A person with a personality disorder has trouble perceiving and relating to situations and people.

- Do you?


I'm sure that I have trouble relating to most people in the dimensions mentioned, yes
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Re: Can someone have ASPD and social anxiety?

Postby Seili » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:57 am

Mine were just general thoughts/questions.

Not liking someone isn't enough to diagnose them with anything.
It is the mark of an..curious mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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