Our partner

Boundaries - personal

Antisocial Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.
Forum rules
Attention Please. You are entering the ASPD forum. Please read this carefully.

Given the unique propensities of those who are faced with the issues of ASPD, topics at times may be uncomfortable for non ASPD readers. Discussions related to violent urges are permitted here, within the context of deeper understanding of the commonalties shared by members. Indulging these urges is not what regular users here are attempting to do.

Conversations here can be triggering for those who have suffered abuse or violent encounters. Respectful questioning is welcome from non ASPD members.

For those who have no respect for either this illness or for those who are living with it, please do not enter this forum. Discrimination of Personality Disorders is not tolerated on this site.

Moderators are present here to ensure that members treat each other with dignity and respect. If topics become overly graphic or drift from having a healthy perspective, moderators will intervene.
Please feel free to contact a moderator if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,
The Team

Boundaries - personal

Postby Changingbee » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:11 am

This is a personal advice question, but I figured that you would be the most qualified to answer because of your knowledge about psyhopathy and about power dynamics.

I'm a woman in my twenties and a psychology student, and I hang out with a psychopathic man. We have sex, and I really like him.

If it weren't for my psychological training I would be the classical "I accept anything because love is unconditional, power means nothing and my love will save you" type, mostly because being used turns me on but also because of issues: because of my education though I ended up becoming a weird mix, something like "I want to give my complete service as a gift but I want to be deeply respected nonetheless"(?). My submission is also based in a "confident people don't need to be powerful all the time", "power-of-vulnerability" kind of thinking. Of course these things means that respectful men don't turn me on and disrespectful ones are thrown away immediately... So this weird mix is the worst thing ever. Anyway.

He is not overtly controlling, but he is very manipulative. Most of the time I find it clever how he tries to manipulate me (well, especially when I notice too late), but also I don't know if it is something that I can accept (I think he doesn't damage me, he just seems to play). What bothers me the most is how sweetly condescending he is: when he talks about my "pretty little head" with nonchalance it starts a fight between my brain and my vagina, even if I know that it is a script for him. My current strategy is to let him say what he wants to say and play dumb and appreciative as long as his actions are respectful.

My question is: how can I service him without being disrespected? I want to be used for sex, housework, maybe even money, but I don't want to be emotionally dependent on him because I want to be able to leave if he ever tries to damage me. I don't want to be a girlfriend nor a slave nor a pet: I want to be something like a loyal, generous friend. Is expecting him to be somehow authentic realistic? What do you think I should accept and what do you think I shouldn't? I don't know where to draw the line.
Also, he wants to be worshipped like a God. Sexually it is ok with me, but outside of the bedroom... He is deserving of respect, but I find disrespectful to worship him, as it feeds something unhealthy.

Can I be on the same level of someone who only wants to dominate and still treat him with respect and be sexually interesting? Am I trying to change him? Am I rationalizing my weaknesses? Am I setting myself up for abuse?
Changingbee
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:38 am
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby xdude » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:57 am

Hi Changingbee,

I approved your first post here, but just be warned, you may get some harsh answers or thoughts. You also have the option of posting in the Significant Others, Family & Friends forum where you may get some more 'supportive' thoughts, but it's fine if you want the thoughts from people in this forum to start. Just be aware, you get your donuts here with no added sugar ;)
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8292
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Changingbee » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:22 pm

Thank you for your warning xdude :)
If harsh needs to be, harsh is welcome, and I can see why it would be harsh. Maybe I banged my head hard when I was young, but these guys see the world in a way that is so different from mine that I think I can learn something from interacting with them.
First thing I learned from other interactions is: words are just that... Words. Support is nice and I like that but I'm here to learn.
Changingbee
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:38 am
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Oblivion » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:39 pm

Changingbee wrote:If it weren't for my psychological training I would be the classical "I accept anything because love is unconditional, power means nothing and my love will save you" type, mostly because being used turns me on but also because of issues: because of my education though I ended up becoming a weird mix, something like "I want to give my complete service as a gift but I want to be deeply respected nonetheless"(?). My submission is also based in a "confident people don't need to be powerful all the time", "power-of-vulnerability" kind of thinking. Of course these things means that respectful men don't turn me on and disrespectful ones are thrown away immediately... So this weird mix is the worst thing ever. Anyway.


All the psychological training in the world can't change your emotional makeup/tendencies.

You are thinking with your vagina and this will eventually lead to trouble.

The rest of your post is filled with so many contradictions I don't know where to begin. Re-read what you wrote. You are conflicted over what you want emotionally and your libido is preventing you from thinking clearly.

Vagina-5
Head-0
Two black eyes-pending.

Was that nice enough xdude?
Kids need to know they suck.
Oblivion
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 830
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby xdude » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:54 pm

Changingbee wrote:If harsh needs to be, harsh is welcome, and I can see why it would be harsh. \


Cool, as long as you are okay with the real harsh truths get written here, no candy, all good.
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8292
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby xdude » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:59 pm

Changingbee wrote:these guys see the world in a way that is so different from mine that I think I can learn something from interacting with them.


Yes, it's an entirely different view on the the world and worth listening to them, they have some unique insights into 'truth', but it is not just guys, plenty of female AsPD types too. Their approach is a bit different but same thing just sometimes, in a different presentation.
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8292
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Reaper » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:48 pm

Changingbee wrote:What bothers me the most is how sweetly condescending he is: when he talks about my "pretty little head" with nonchalance it starts a fight between my brain and my vagina, even if I know that it is a script for him. My current strategy is to let him say what he wants to say and play dumb and appreciative as long as his actions are respectful.


Yeah, because being condescending is definitely respectful...

My question is: how can I service him without being disrespected? I want to be used for sex, housework, maybe even money


You're never going to be respected while you're offering yourself as something to be used. Do you think people who use people respect them?

I don't want to be a girlfriend nor a slave nor a pet:


It's too late for that, darlin. You're already his slave/pet.

I want to be something like a loyal, generous friend.


lol, and I want to be a criminal kingpin, but that ain't gonna happen either.

Is expecting him to be somehow authentic realistic? What do you think I should accept and what do you think I shouldn't? I don't know where to draw the line.


If he is a psychopath, then he is never going to be anything more to you than the image he wants you to see.

It's up to you to determine what you should or shouldn't accept. Nobody else can answer that for you.

If you want respect, then act like someone who deserves it. If all you're offering is a house maid, human ATM machine and fuk toy, then you can't expect to be treated any differently.

Also, he wants to be worshipped like a God. Sexually it is ok with me, but outside of the bedroom... He is deserving of respect, but I find disrespectful to worship him, as it feeds something unhealthy.


Why is he deserving of respect?

Can I be on the same level of someone who only wants to dominate and still treat him with respect and be sexually interesting?


You will never be on his level. He's already made that clear to you by being condescending.

Am I trying to change him? Am I rationalizing my weaknesses?


No. Your problem is that you're in the wrong kind of relationship, expecting something from someone that is never going to give you what you want. You know that already, but you're apparently not willing to accept that fact.

The dude's a psychopath and you want a friend who respects you. Either you're very fuking stupid or you really don't understand psychopathy.

Am I setting myself up for abuse?


Yes you are, but who knows, maybe you'll like that too...
User avatar
Reaper
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 23882
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:34 pm
Local time: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:16 am
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Changingbee » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:56 pm

Oblivion wrote:All the psychological training in the world can't change your emotional makeup/tendencies.


Yes, sadly you are right. But with a little bit of courage awareness should allow me to go against what I want if what I want is a recipe for disaster.

Oblivion wrote: You are conflicted over what you want emotionally and your libido is preventing you from thinking clearly.


Reaper" wrote: You're never going to be respected while you're offering yourself as something to be used. Do you think people who use people respect them?


This is exactly the problem. Conflict. Is there really one? Can't someone be both used and respected? Because I know I want both. I mean, why shouldn't someone be able to give something to another person and still be worthy of respect?

By "respected" I mean that I don't want to be hurt physically, that I want to have a say in decisions about me, that I don't want my boundaries pushed, that if I ever found myself vulnerable (maybe because tied up, maybe because sharing a secret... Things like that) he would not take advantage of the situation, that I don't want to be ridiculed or lied to.  I don't want to have power over him, but I want to have power over myself. I don't want to be hurt, in other words. I don't expect him to do that out of love, but I was hoping I could get that out of... Investment?

By "used" of course I mean that I want to provide benefits, and I like it to be unfair. Is this something pathological by definition in your opinion? Personally I don't know. I don't feel hurt by that, but people who drink liquid soap don't feel hurt either until they are. What I know is that for me giving up this dynamic means giving up sex until (if) my tastes will change. Not a pleasurable choice.

About the black eyes thing, I don't know where he stands on the antisocial-prosocial continuum. I only know that he was told he was a psychopath by a friend of him who is a psychiatrist, and I see all the signs myself. I know nothing about his relationship with the law. He seems well adjusted, but what do I know? I only know he has a job and it changes every 6 months, and that he didn't kill me... yet. This is a good thing, right? Ok I'm being silly and avoidant of the problem.

Reaper wrote:Why is he deserving of respect?


He earns it by being competent, flexible and kind. I mean, he does a lot of things for me even if the balance is tipped in my direction. I wouldn't be here conflicted if he weren't intelligent. I guess a fraction of that respect comes from social dominance too. Humans are apes in the end.

Reaper wrote:If he is a psychopath, then he is never going to be anything more to you than the image he wants you to see. (...)
The dude's a psychopath and you want a friend who respects you. Either you're very fuking stupid or you really don't understand psychopathy.


...This is very, very important to me. I think it answers my question more than anything else. He can fake being a friend who respects me if I'm strong enough to make it a necessity for him to get what he wants but he'll never *feel* a friend who respects me. This means that he probably sees me like I see that old aunt who gives me money. She is nice and all but I don't care about her and her needs irritate me but still I'm kind to her... It's a weird sensation to understand this. Wow. I know the theory about psychopathy but I'm involved and not thinking clearly as I would like to.

On one hand who cares what he feels? It's behaviour that matters. On the other hand... What he feels will shape his behaviour, it's a matter of time. Maybe he will kick me in a garbage bin the very moment I get the flu and can't have sex for a week.

I guess I will give him up and become a buddhist nun.
Changingbee
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:38 am
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Changingbee » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:18 pm

And I understood another important thing.

I can be useful to someone AFTER I know they treat me with respect nonetheless.
This is the only way I have to be both used and respected.

Otherwise, is called "exchange": right know I'm literally paying his kindness with sex. No respect comes from exchange. This is not the way it's earned. It has nothing to do with it.
Changingbee
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:38 am
Local time: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:16 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Boundaries - personal

Postby Reaper » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:19 pm

To summarize: You want to know if this psychopathic dude who is using you will ever be a genuine friend and respect your boundaries.

The answer is yes, absolutely.

Good luck with your new psychopathic friend. I'm sure he's a great guy who will treat you well.
User avatar
Reaper
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 23882
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:34 pm
Local time: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:16 am
Blog: View Blog (1)

Next

Return to Antisocial Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 119 guests