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Sadism vs psychopathy

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Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby morbid3 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:59 am

I have a question for the psychopaths in this group. In the article I link to below, it's theorized that psychopaths cannot experience (sexual) sadism because of their lack of empathy. You don't need to read the whole thing, the passage I'm referring to says:

=> Decety’s study suggests that sadists seem to be especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling — in fact, they experience it vicariously and are aroused by it. Psychopaths, on the other hand, tend to be indifferent to the emotions of others. “If you live with a psychopath and you cry because that person was unpleasant to you, that probably doesn’t matter to him. He is not moved and doesn’t care, because he doesn’t feel anything about what you feel,” says Decety. “The sadists do feel. They understand that the victim is in pain.” <=

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/14/u ... athic-mind

Do you agree with this?
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby saucygirl31 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:01 am

not a psycho but they do have empathy just don't seem to use it, iirc.

-- Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:03 am --

ur right tho a living vegatable would not be sadistic.
ur grill saucy.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby morbid3 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:10 am

not a psycho but they do have empathy just don't seem to use it, iirc.


I think there is a difference between at some abstract level understanding that the other person must be experiencing this or that emotion, and empathizing with the person. I have no doubt that psychopaths can do the former. But empathy means that you "feel with" the other person. Commonly, you feel their suffering which then inspires your compassion. Or, in the case of sadism, it inspires arousal. I guess that aspect is not just important to the sadist, that's the whole point. And that's what I'm wondering about. The theory is that psychopaths don't experience that type of pleasure.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby Reaper » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:49 am

morbid3 wrote:I have a question for the psychopaths in this group. In the article I link to below, it's theorized that psychopaths cannot experience (sexual) sadism because of their lack of empathy. You don't need to read the whole thing, the passage I'm referring to says:

=> Decety’s study suggests that sadists seem to be especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling — in fact, they experience it vicariously and are aroused by it. Psychopaths, on the other hand, tend to be indifferent to the emotions of others. “If you live with a psychopath and you cry because that person was unpleasant to you, that probably doesn’t matter to him. He is not moved and doesn’t care, because he doesn’t feel anything about what you feel,” says Decety. “The sadists do feel. They understand that the victim is in pain.” <=

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/14/u ... athic-mind

Do you agree with this?


I agree with the quote to an extent. People are objects, things, or tools to be used and discarded once they lose their value. Their feelings, hopes and dreams are irrelevant. There's no point in emotionally empathizing with something that has no real value, but one can still get pleasure from hurting it, because cognitive empathy allow's us to be aware of another's pain.

Think of it like someone who goes to a shooting range because he enjoys shooting at a target. He doesn't give a fuk about the target, but he still gets some enjoyment out of shooting it, and that's all a person is to a psychopath who enjoys hurting people - a target, nothing more. Though, a human target can obviously experience pain. If it felt nothing at all, they're wouldn't be any pleasure in hurting it, but it's still just a target nonetheless.

So, to say that all psychopaths do not get pleasure from being sadistic is, in my opinion, a fallacy. Of course, not all of them are sadits either, but as someone who is both sadistic and psychopathic - to some degree anyway (I'm not sure how much, but certainly more than most people) I can definitely say that some are.

Also, there's this:

Sadism and psychopathy in violent and sexually violent offenders.

Psychopaths were found to be significantly more sadistic than nonpsychopaths

The trait measures of sadism and psychopathy measures (PCL-R, Factor 1 and Factor 2) significantly and positively correlated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10212024
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby morbid3 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:05 am

Thanks, Reaper. It seems to me that it also depends on what definitions are used. In the reference you gave, one of the tests seems to conflate aggression and sadism. On the other hand, no findings on the test for sexual sadism.

You say that you are a sadist. Is the excitement you gain primarily sexual in nature? Do you derive your enjoyment from being violent per se, or from the power over your victim that you gain from the violence? Or do you derive pleasure from the knowledge or perception that your victim is suffering? Suppose your victim shows absolutely no reaction - no pain, no suffering, just sits there like a statue, no matter what you do to them. Would you still be excited by the situation?
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby Reaper » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:21 am

morbid3 wrote:You say that you are a sadist. Is the excitement you gain primarily sexual in nature? Do you derive your enjoyment from being violent per se, or from the power over your victim that you gain from the violence? Or do you derive pleasure from the knowledge or perception that your victim is suffering?


There is certainly a sexual element to it in some instances (not all), but it's mainly about power/control, Dominance. Also, I like instilling fear in people. I find it amusing. I don't always feel something when I hurt people though. There are times where I didn't feel anything at all. I expected to, but I didn't. I think it's situational and dependent on circumstance.

Suppose your victim shows absolutely no reaction - no pain, no suffering, just sits there like a statue, no matter what you do to them. Would you still be excited by the situation?


No, because hurting people doesn't really excite me as such. The pleasure I get is somewhat minimal in comparison to someone who experiences stronger emotions.

If the person didn't react in the way I expected that would likely just anger me and encourage me to be more violent in order to get that reaction.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby morbid3 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:06 am

That all makes sense to me, Reaper. Thanks.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby ShaolinMonk » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:17 pm

morbid3 wrote:I have a question for the psychopaths in this group. In the article I link to below, it's theorized that psychopaths cannot experience (sexual) sadism because of their lack of empathy. You don't need to read the whole thing, the passage I'm referring to says:

=> Decety’s study suggests that sadists seem to be especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling — in fact, they experience it vicariously and are aroused by it. Psychopaths, on the other hand, tend to be indifferent to the emotions of others. “If you live with a psychopath and you cry because that person was unpleasant to you, that probably doesn’t matter to him. He is not moved and doesn’t care, because he doesn’t feel anything about what you feel,” says Decety. “The sadists do feel. They understand that the victim is in pain.” <=

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/14/u ... athic-mind

Do you agree with this?

Neither have any friends or relationships if that is the case. Read like complete cvnts to waste time with. On the other hand, sadists are fun, as they tend to explode when you flip their game on them.

Best way to train a sadist is to return the favor and then some.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby saucygirl31 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:03 am

i think that's why I'm a sadomasochist, monkey. sadism is a power trip and masochism is ego regulation. and if I put it that way masochism is actually more necessary to be healthy. but on the other hand I can go without masochism but not without sadism.

im not healthy. it's not just my sense that i deserve to have my way it's also that i like to effect people and it just so happens that I'm better at fuking ppl up than helping them. helping ppl only feels good when u know ur managing their perception of u.
ur grill saucy.
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Re: Sadism vs psychopathy

Postby dobiedobiedoo » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:29 am

morbid3 wrote:I have a question for the psychopaths in this group. In the article I link to below, it's theorized that psychopaths cannot experience (sexual) sadism because of their lack of empathy. You don't need to read the whole thing, the passage I'm referring to says:

=> Decety’s study suggests that sadists seem to be especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling — in fact, they experience it vicariously and are aroused by it. Psychopaths, on the other hand, tend to be indifferent to the emotions of others. “If you live with a psychopath and you cry because that person was unpleasant to you, that probably doesn’t matter to him. He is not moved and doesn’t care, because he doesn’t feel anything about what you feel,” says Decety. “The sadists do feel. They understand that the victim is in pain.” <=

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/14/u ... athic-mind

Do you agree with this?


First of all, the research the article links has nothing to do with Psychopathy. It looks at the difference between sadists and non-sadists among sexual offenders.
You can read it yourself: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22393220
It excluded Psychopathy and tried to find brain differences unique to sadism. The article itself is misleading and I doubt the authors bothered to read it themselves.

Second, the research sample is very small. Consisting only of 8 sadists and 7 nonsadists for the control group. Based on this alone, you should be skeptical of it of the research findings.

"Being especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling”
Being attuned to what another is feeling is not emotional empathy. The article seems to be confusing both cognitive and emotional empathy. In the case of sadists, It's the opposite, because sadists are in fact low on emotional empathy (more psychopathic traits).

With all that said, it's true that Psychopathy and sadism are not at all synonymous. However there is plenty of research that indicates high prevalence of Psychopathy and sadism especially among sex offenders. Factor 1 has a very positive correlation with sadistic violence.

For the first time, we demonstrated that not only are psychopathic offenders
disproportionately more likely to engage in sexual homicide, but, when they do, they
use significantly more gratuitous and sadistic violence. In fact, both the total and
Factor 1 scores on the PCL—R were positively associated with sadistic violence, in
accordance with the theory that psychopathy and sadism are closely related disorders (Hare et al., 1999).


https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Offenders

Exploratory and confirmatory factor analyses of crime scene descriptions yielded four sexual crime behavior factors: Violence, Physical Control, Sexual Behavior, and Paraphilic. Sadism and psychopathy covaried, but were not coextensive; sadism correlated with Total PCL-R, Facet 1, and Facet 4 scores. The PCL-R facets collectively predicted the Violence and Paraphilic factors, whereas sadism only predicted the Violence factor.


https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... vellianism
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