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Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

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Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:30 pm

Car-parks and suburbia, working in offices, getting "paid" in numbers and plastic. Fake news, fake food, fake tits, The world we experience is fake.

Movies and games contain a fakeness to them so those watching can tell themselves that that was the simulation and once the show is over they go back to their "real" worlds.

https://epk.home.xs4all.nl/theory/Simulation/Baudrillard_Simulacra%20and%20Simulations.pdf

When people say on this forum; "In real life I am like this" You don't know the "real" me, they are playing with the idea that the character in this forum is fake, so that they can believe the persona outside the forum typing away is real.

I've noticed I play around in this forum with a persona of a squaredonutwheel. A kind of useless silly object as a square wheel that is a mushy as a donut is pretty pointless and fake. The fakeness of pretending to be a character on a forum contributes to propping up the illusion that outside the forum isn't fake.. but it is. What is this persona but a simulation.

Just like prisons are necessary to maintain the illusion of freedom outside prisons, the PD or DX that one "struggles against" is a necessity to maintain that the persona outside the DX is somehow more real. Makes sense why people volunteer to get diagnosis and perform regular checkups. It's to have some box that is the NOT them to preserve the integrity of the delusion of what IS them.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Manners73 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:22 pm

I'm probably more foul mouthed and confrontational in real life than I am online.

I don't like to think of people being fake on here but maybe a different side comes out because its written rather than spoken.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Oblivion » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:29 pm

We're just aberrations of what we want to/think we should be. Which is why we turn to psychiatry to "fix" us, which is just the blind leading the blind because the mind can't ever be fully understood. It's not meant to be.

So, what if we accepted all that is fake as real? What if we accepted car parks and credit cards and Reaper and Kraft processed cheese food product at face value? To rise above it would be futile because there's no limit to it and to try to dig beneath it would be a waste of time because we'd just end up right back where we are. We have no choice. It's all we know. So we're stuck here.

A lot of philosophy is flawed because everybody's experience is different. All that experience is is what we subconsciously extract from the stimuli around us. What we choose to extract is what's fake, because our choices are based on our perception of ourselves, and our perception of ourselves is the biggest lie of all. Everybody is nobody. We're just appropriations of a slew of aspirations we've adopted since we first understood the concept of object permanence. And a whole lot of those aspirations are fed to us by liars and advertisers.

Depressing? Pointless? That's what navel gazing will get you. I'd like to think that at the moment of death, we're injected with an epiphany telling us it all means. But because I can't be sure whether that epiphany would be spiritual or the result of long dormant neurons firing one last time to "sew things up" for us, it's more comforting to think of death as just an end and not give it another thought. Have a cheeseburger, rub one out and go to bed. Repeat. That's all life is. If someone want's to create a masterpiece of art, fine, but don't get upset if some idiot decides to adopt it fallaciously in order to round out a persona that you find repugnant.

There's little difference between who we are irl and who we are on the internet. Both come from the same well of experience, and the only difference between you and me is based on which falsehoods either of us choose to accept in order to round out what we perceive as ourselves. it doesn't matter.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:57 pm

Oblivion wrote:What if we accepted car parks and credit cards and Reaper and Kraft processed cheese food product at face value? To rise above it would be futile because there's no limit to it and to try to dig beneath it would be a waste of time because we'd just end up right back where we are. We have no choice. It's all we know. So we're stuck here.


I find myself coming to this conclusion at times, and decide to take everyone at face value to negate the need to continually analyse. The problem is that it's not enough.

There can be no face value from others, because they're doing whatever everyone else does: create a persona to match the environment. If you take them at face value you change the way they react to you, which changes their behaviour and contradicts what you've already seen. So you now have to doubt the face value and you end up where you were.

Human interaction relies on the constant cycle of behaviour -> analysis -> response. If we shorten that to behaviour -> response then there's no context to anything we do and we resort to a series of disconnected reactions.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Manners73 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:07 pm

I like a bit of fakery me.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:21 pm

Oblivion wrote:So, what if we accepted all that is fake as real? What if we accepted car parks and credit cards and Reaper and Kraft processed cheese food product at face value? To rise above it would be futile because there's no limit to it and to try to dig beneath it would be a waste of time because we'd just end up right back where we are. We have no choice. It's all we know. So we're stuck here.

A lot of philosophy is flawed because everybody's experience is different. All that experience is is what we subconsciously extract from the stimuli around us. What we choose to extract is what's fake, because our choices are based on our perception of ourselves, and our perception of ourselves is the biggest lie of all. Everybody is nobody. We're just appropriations of a slew of aspirations we've adopted since we first understood the concept of object permanence. And a whole lot of those aspirations are fed to us by liars and advertisers.

Depressing? Pointless?


I enjoyed reading this. It seems like you've gone through this line of thought before.
Perhaps it is pointless. For me it wasn't that depressing yet. I suspect the novelty of examining and sniffing a bit of lint in my navel is still fresh to me. Feeling stuck in layers of simulation and feeling removed from the Real is smothery and bothersome. It's uncomfortably comfortable. My reaction is annoyance and a desire to lash out but I realize the futility of it so yes.. it could lead to depression if I struggle alone and unheard long enough. Yet for some reason I persist for reasons unknown to myself.

"We have no choice. It's all we know. So we're stuck here." Some people are suggesting that we arn't stuck but are faced with accelerating ourselves out of this into some new unknown. Perhaps we will live long enough to see what a world is were even the fundamentals like personal identity and property will have changed to something we can barely imagine right now.

A little far fetched and cutesy but I'm curious and hopeful to experience what that may be. I wonder if the transition will be an awkward benign one or a hellscape were the new is born clawing it's way out of the screaming host like a baby xenomorph.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Oblivion » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:28 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:Human interaction relies on the constant cycle of behaviour -> analysis -> response. If we shorten that to behaviour -> response then there's no context to anything we do and we resort to a series of disconnected reactions.


Sounds like as good a description of a personality disorder as any.

I was discussing PDs with someone after recently getting a tentative dx of mixed PD traits, ie. PD NOS. If we are to assume the requisite amount of PD traits exhibited together would point to a specific PD, what does that say about PD NOS, which is supposedly very common? I think it's nonsense. From a certain viewpoint, everyone I've ever known has displayed at least one PD trait at one time or another. Where do character flaws end and PD's begin? Is it possible that having one or more PD traits can be seen as a coping mechanism that helps us navigate an oversaturated, overstimulating, fake world?

When the most powerful leader on the planet is an ignorant man-child and thousands die from cancer every day simply because the spinach industry has less clout than the snack food industry, is it really wise to go about your life in a 'business as usual' way? How could any kind of analysis hope to unravel the duplicitous, malevolence of civilized society? After all, what is society other than the sum of human interaction? Perhaps reacting to others minus the analysis could be seen as honest, rather than disconnected? Or disordered?
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:31 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:Human interaction relies on the constant cycle of behaviour -> analysis -> response. If we shorten that to behaviour -> response then there's no context to anything we do and we resort to a series of disconnected reactions.


I've noticed this trend already happening. I've been scouring the internet for storm signals quite a lot these days. It's been described as nonplayer controlled players (NPC)

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NPC

I wonder how many people don't even realize that their beliefs and world experiences are almost entirely fabricated because they have simply destroyed the ability to think and have replaced think with a copy of what thinking actually is.

What I find rather interesting is that even this trend of dehumanizing the general pop as an NPC is almost prep for something more. (perhaps they dehumanize themselves) Do I smell a storm raining blood approaching.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Oblivion » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:56 pm

Squaredonutwheels wrote:Feeling stuck in layers of simulation and feeling removed from the Real is smothery and bothersome. It's uncomfortably comfortable. My reaction is annoyance and a desire to lash out but I realize the futility of it...


This is exactly how I feel. I have no desire to participate in the world as it is today. Is that why they stamp me as schizoid? If you put my life as it is now on paper, it would suggest that I should be deeply depressed and terribly worried. But I'm not. I take the steps necessary to improve things for myself, but they're baby steps actually, and while I go through the motions, my heart isn't really in it. I'd rather just be. Therapy, meditation, medication, CBT...how is all this any different than reality TV or Taco Bell? It's all sprung from the same toilet that exists solely to make someone else rich. I quit. ###$ you. For the last ten years I've done the minimum in terms of taking responsibility for my current situation, but I'm still standing. The shoe hasn't dropped yet. You can't crush a bug that's hiding under the floorboards.

Some people are suggesting that we arn't stuck but are faced with accelerating ourselves out of this into some new unknown. Perhaps we will live long enough to see what a world is were even the fundamentals like personal identity and property will have changed to something we can barely imagine right now.

A little far fetched and cutesy but I'm curious and hopeful to experience what that may be. I wonder if the transition will be an awkward benign one or a hellscape were the new is born clawing it's way out of the screaming host like a baby xenomorph.


I'm betting you're under thirty. :D

I think we need to decelerate. That it's not so much of a transition than a peeling away of the systems that work against the majority of us. That's a nice way of saying we need to tear it the ###$ down. You can't improve on a mistake. Sometimes you have to start from scratch or take a step back and assess what's wrong. I believe it's too late for both. The only alternative is to watch it burn.
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Re: Simulacrum and simulations Re: this forum & DX's

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:03 pm

Oblivion wrote:
justonemoreperson wrote:Human interaction relies on the constant cycle of behaviour -> analysis -> response. If we shorten that to behaviour -> response then there's no context to anything we do and we resort to a series of disconnected reactions.


Sounds like as good a description of a personality disorder as any.

I was discussing PDs with someone after recently getting a tentative dx of mixed PD traits, ie. PD NOS. If we are to assume the requisite amount of PD traits exhibited together would point to a specific PD, what does that say about PD NOS, which is supposedly very common? I think it's nonsense. From a certain viewpoint, everyone I've ever known has displayed at least one PD trait at one time or another. Where do character flaws end and PD's begin? Is it possible that having one or more PD traits can be seen as a coping mechanism that helps us navigate an oversaturated, overstimulating, fake world?


I have observed that there are those that are more sensitive and insightful that decide that it's futile to struggle against impossible odds and just pretend to be a deaf mute so they are more or less left alone by the vapid stupidity and slimy invasiveness under the guise of "it's good for you".

-- Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:05 am --

Oblivion wrote:This is exactly how I feel. I have no desire to participate in the world as it is today. Is that why they stamp me as schizoid? If you put my life as it is now on paper, it would suggest that I should be deeply depressed and terribly worried. But I'm not. I take the steps necessary to improve things for myself, but they're baby steps actually, and while I go through the motions, my heart isn't really in it. I'd rather just be. Therapy, meditation, medication, CBT...how is all this any different than reality TV or Taco Bell? It's all sprung from the same toilet that exists solely to make someone else rich. I quit. ###$ you. For the last ten years I've done the minimum in terms of taking responsibility for my current situation, but I'm still standing. The shoe hasn't dropped yet. You can't crush a bug that's hiding under the floorboards.

Holy f*ck this is the funniest thing I've read all year! Can't crush a bug that's hiding under the floorboards asdklfjsdghsdlfiwire
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