Our partner

Projective identification

Antisocial Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: seabreezeblue

Forum rules
Attention Please. You are entering the ASPD forum. Please read this carefully.

Given the unique propensities of those who are faced with the issues of ASPD, topics at times may be uncomfortable for non ASPD readers. Discussions related to violent urges are permitted here, within the context of deeper understanding of the commonalties shared by members. Indulging these urges is not what regular users here are attempting to do.

Conversations here can be triggering for those who have suffered abuse or violent encounters. Respectful questioning is welcome from non ASPD members.

For those who have no respect for either this illness or for those who are living with it, please do not enter this forum. Discrimination of Personality Disorders is not tolerated on this site.

Moderators are present here to ensure that members treat each other with dignity and respect. If topics become overly graphic or drift from having a healthy perspective, moderators will intervene.
Please feel free to contact a moderator if you have any questions or concerns.

Best Regards,
The Team

Projective identification

Postby Kay11 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:33 pm

How does projective identification work in people with ASPD? Especially projective identification of power?
Kay11
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:18 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Projective identification

Postby solemnlysworn » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:42 pm

I wrote this once about narcs and PI of anger

{na[anger]rc} {norm}
So the narcissist has been hurt and now he has a subconscious anger. To battle this he projects it into the open so he doesn't have to deal with it.
{na[anger]rc}>---anger--->{norm}
He does this by accusing the norm of being angry. This accusation makes the norm angry, proving the narc's theory and keeping his delusion alive.
{na[anger]rc}---------{norm anger}
Now that the norm is angry, the narc begins to feel consciously angry, blaming it on the norm's anger - in his mind there is now a valid excuse to be angry that isn't "I'm an insecure little dweeb."
{narc[]anger}------{norm anger}
The narc now experiences the emotion he suppressed by first projecting and then identifying it in someone else.[/quote]


And was trying to model on Power but I'm not sure how exactly that would work. Have you read something about AsPD and projective identification? I can't see power fits into a similar model
Hello friend
User avatar
solemnlysworn
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:51 am
Local time: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Projective identification

Postby influence » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:04 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I wrote this once about narcs and PI of anger

{na[anger]rc} {norm}
So the narcissist has been hurt and now he has a subconscious anger. To battle this he projects it into the open so he doesn't have to deal with it.
{na[anger]rc}>---anger--->{norm}
He does this by accusing the norm of being angry. This accusation makes the norm angry, proving the narc's theory and keeping his delusion alive.
{na[anger]rc}---------{norm anger}
Now that the norm is angry, the narc begins to feel consciously angry, blaming it on the norm's anger - in his mind there is now a valid excuse to be angry that isn't "I'm an insecure little dweeb."
{narc[]anger}------{norm anger}
The narc now experiences the emotion he suppressed by first projecting and then identifying it in someone else.



And was trying to model on Power but I'm not sure how exactly that would work. Have you read something about AsPD and projective identification? I can't see power fits into a similar model[/quote]

what do you think "dealing with it" would entail?
User avatar
influence
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:44 am
Local time: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Projective identification

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:15 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I wrote this once about narcs and PI of anger

{na[anger]rc} {norm}
So the narcissist has been hurt and now he has a subconscious anger. To battle this he projects it into the open so he doesn't have to deal with it.
{na[anger]rc}>---anger--->{norm}
He does this by accusing the norm of being angry. This accusation makes the norm angry, proving the narc's theory and keeping his delusion alive.
{na[anger]rc}---------{norm anger}
Now that the norm is angry, the narc begins to feel consciously angry, blaming it on the norm's anger - in his mind there is now a valid excuse to be angry that isn't "I'm an insecure little dweeb."
{narc[]anger}------{norm anger}
The narc now experiences the emotion he suppressed by first projecting and then identifying it in someone else.



And was trying to model on Power but I'm not sure how exactly that would work. Have you read something about AsPD and projective identification? I can't see power fits into a similar model[/quote]

Interesting. I also like the play with symbols to aid in explaining. It helped me understand something just sentences would have failed in.

I've noticed this as well. It's not just with blatant narcs though. It's practically everyone past puberty who has been socialized except the exceptional rare person who is able to own every emotion they have because they are devoid of shame and/or pain(?). This function of narcissistic ejection seems to be critical to maintain a cohesive culture.


Back to OP question. What is OP talking about when saying "power"?

Perhaps it's because the signifier "power" can be used to signify an emotional experience: "feeling powerful or powerless" Vs power as in the ability to manifest a vision into reality.

I suspect the OP was using "power" as the former because the later does not compute for me either.

Is AsPD an umbrella of behaviors that don't fit the social norm?
OR
Is AsPD distinct from narcissism as it is a condition which lacks fundamental narcissism required to BE social.

If it is the later, then the answer to the question seems like an obvious NO. But because many people diagnosed with AsPD clearly enjoy feeling powerful by inflicting powerlessness on something outside "themselves". This means that they too have narcissism and AsPD is an umbrella of behaviors and it's that their

Long story short.
What is the question asking and wtf is AsPD actually describing and what do you mean by "power"
Squaredonutwheels
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:41 pm
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: Projective identification

Postby vcrpamphlet » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:58 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I wrote this once about narcs and PI of anger

{na[anger]rc} {norm}
So the narcissist has been hurt and now he has a subconscious anger. To battle this he projects it into the open so he doesn't have to deal with it.
{na[anger]rc}>---anger--->{norm}
He does this by accusing the norm of being angry. This accusation makes the norm angry, proving the narc's theory and keeping his delusion alive.
{na[anger]rc}---------{norm anger}
Now that the norm is angry, the narc begins to feel consciously angry, blaming it on the norm's anger - in his mind there is now a valid excuse to be angry that isn't "I'm an insecure little dweeb."
{narc[]anger}------{norm anger}
The narc now experiences the emotion he suppressed by first projecting and then identifying it in someone else.


You see this all the time in addicts when in withdrawal, would contextualise more with borderline structures though. Wouldn't say it's limited to narcissists - can be caused by many different kinds of internal tension, or be a pattern of aggression learnt pre-maturity.
vcrpamphlet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:08 am
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Projective identification

Postby justonemoreperson » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:35 pm

The OP seems to be have done as little as possible to introduce this subject, so for those who don't have a f*cking clue what they're on about, here's a simplified explanation:

http://drs-oleary.com/Projective_Identification.htm

It's important to realise that this is done subconsciously, otherwise it's pretty much just gaslighting.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
justonemoreperson
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 9808
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:02 am
Local time: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Projective identification

Postby vcrpamphlet » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:45 pm

Had a look at the article. Yikes. A psychologist with that level of overthinking on commonsense issues would do my head in. Maybe it's an Alaskan thing, but there's little incentive to subdivide projection like that. Why not just call it internalised v. externalised instead of making up a new concept that'll require further explanation?
vcrpamphlet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:08 am
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Projective identification

Postby vcrpamphlet » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:34 pm

Now I get it. 'Projective identification' might be useful in describing the object of the projection in cases where that projection is accepted and causes a distortion of reality in both parties.

Going back to the OP: a projection of power accepted by the recipient would what, make their head swell? Projections don't need to be negative or critical, just unrealistic - so even though the question sounds interesting, unless I'm missing something, it's a basic science everybody knows already.
vcrpamphlet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:08 am
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Projective identification

Postby justonemoreperson » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:28 am

vcrpamphlet wrote: unless I'm missing something, it's a basic science everybody knows already.


The main difference is that it's done by our unconscious mind. So, you're not aware of when you're doing it and how you're doing it. It also means that the reaction to it is going to be basic and primitive, as is the subconscious.

It makes it almost impossible to judge people objectively ourselves, but recognising that this process is happening does allow us to take a step back and at least accept that our view of someone is more a projection of how we see ourselves, rather than how they actually are.

I guess it's the subconscious version of theory of mind. Those times when you see someone who has a face that you just want to punch, probably means that there are aspects of their personality, beyond what your conscious mind can process, that resonates with something in yourself that you dislike or see as a weakness.

Which takes us to "so what?"

I guess to use this as a tool, you'd be finding people you naturally hate and get to know them. If you find that despite these irritating perceived weaknesses, you'll find common ground that would help you to reconcile the negative traits in context and unravel the projection.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
justonemoreperson
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 9808
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:02 am
Local time: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Projective identification

Postby vcrpamphlet » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:17 am

Well said. That "it's a basic science" point is specific to the OP's curiosity re: power. The P.I. concept has merit enough.

How do you relate to what you've written? I mentioned in an off-topic post last year something similar, only termed it as "shadowing" - therapist used the term after describing how a mate had blasted me in public about turning into a dropout junkie - he drank every night, smoked ice every weekend - and she said something to the effect of, "the 5 people you dislike the most will usually display traits you most dislike in yourself." (But it seems fairly invariable to me).

Another way to experiment is to see how others react to your own behaviour. A lot more subjects that way. I've never once had the experience of hating someone, let alone felt anger based on some dickhead's appearance. Have you?

Still do plenty of projecting, but I'm too screwed up at a personal level to fully condemn anyone else for misbehaviour. Plus the whole idea is ignorant to begin with. Our entire perceptual field is created by the brain: humans fumble through space like blind newborn deer. What's the point in caring about miscreants more than you have to?
vcrpamphlet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:08 am
Local time: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Antisocial Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AmirElAchmed, Bing [Bot], Brandon1, Google Adsense [Bot], PythonHax and 107 guests