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Value Judgements

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Value Judgements

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:52 am

We all judge motives and the value of others based on things we see or know about them.

Sometimes it's a simple, like whether they're wearing glasses or a certain types of clothes, their speech, short, tall, black, white, class etc.

Sometimes it's based on their behaviour, either over a single event or a series of events over time. We can see this when we see how much a judgement can arrive over a single act a celebrity does that can wreck their career.

So, here are the questions, we all love questions, with my own answers as examples:

Are you aware of how much you judge people on your own internal value system?

All of the time. Some of it is based on skin colour, I class Indian-looking people with disdain, despite having an Indian friend (and eating a fair amount of their food). Poor people, stupid people, psychologically broken people tend to make me judge them initially.

That said, I'm fascinated by human achievement, and if I see someone being more than others in their situation normally are capable of, I tend to create a good value judgement of them, despite anything else they might do.

What types of people do you value more of less than others?

I've f*cked up my own questions, because I've kinda answered this above, but to try to make it look like I did it on purpose: I value confident people, strong decision makers and those who try to be more than they are, although I do tend to internally patronise them if they're stupid or socially deprived.

If you were someone else looking at you, create two value statements about your value judgement about how you perceive yourself from the perspective of someone else. One of them should be positive and one negative.

"Jomp saved my husband's life. I think he's a wonderful person. Yeah, he's abrupt but what you see is what you get. If more people were like him, the world would be a better place."

"Jomp walked away from me as I was telling him my mother was dying. What an arrogant, self-important c*nt."

I recognise that I do things consciously to create a high value judgement about myself in other people's eyes to offset negative perception.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby mysza » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:22 am

To be honest I usually don't judge people, just social processes and organisation. People are just born as they are and trying to adapt to the situation. There's no difference between saint and criminal other that they were adapted to different situation. The moral problem is not to look for those who are guilty but to create an appropriate social system. Bourgeois, reactionary criminology tries to examine the brains of people and explain that they were born bad - just to justify after the fact why the bourgeoisie is people who were born good and they have to do nothing more. First of all, don't think.

Someone who becomes a murderer is him because he has been manipulated into it. In this way, he takes for himself the role of 'evil', so that a obedient kid of the bourgeoisie can rationalize system of violence, imprisonment and pacification, with sincere belief that he's good. There's no antisocial person, we're all just socialized to different social roles. It's expected from me, even in this forum, that as a narcissistic person and with a tendency for antisocial behavior I will be BAD despite the fact that this is the rule I'm to submit to, and I don't like rules by nature. This is the basis of my subjectivist ethics.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby Solowolfpack » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:55 am

I really hate most people about equally until I get to know them. I tend to think higher of successful people but I also think a lot of them are pretty stupid that had connections that made it possible to get where they are. I probably have the most respect for people who do something with their lives that are living with handicaps and mental illness. They are working with such a bad hand and they push through, it would be so easy for them to give up and quit.

Athletes, lawyers, business executives etc, especially celebrities I don’t look up or value these people they do what they do for themselves, I don’t see much value in that. Also how to you place value on what’s someone means to their own family, friends etc. I don’t particularly value my own life all that much so it’s hard for me to value anyone else’s.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby Reaper » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:41 pm

Are you aware of how much you judge people on your own internal value system?

Yeah, I tend to judge people more on their weaknesses and insecurities than I do on anything else because those are the things I'm often looking for to exploit.

When I meet someone for the first time I always make an initial judgment based on how they present themselves, how they look and dress, but I might reassess that after getting to know them more. I'm not sure if that's based on any kind of internal value system though. It's a natural reaction to judge others for the purpose of survival. It helps us discern who is safe to put our trust in and who isn't.


What types of people do you value more of less than others?

People who are useful to me. It doesn't matter what they look like, as long as I can use them in some way. Their looks would matter though if they're usefulness relied on them of course.

If someone is useless to me, then it doesn't matter if they're as good looking as a Hollywood movie star, they have zero value.


If you were someone else looking at you, create two value statements about your value judgement about how you perceive yourself from the perspective of someone else. One of them should be positive and one negative.

"Reaper is strong and resilient, interesting and entertaining. She has a magnetic personality that draws people to her"

"Reaper comes across as shallow, superficial and egotistical. She acts like the whole world revolves around her"

Those two statements may seem somewhat contradictory, but different people have different opinions.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby naps » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Are you aware of how much you judge people on your own internal value system?


I am, but it troubles me a little bit because I believe our value systems are based on an instinctive need for acceptance and security: "This person does not share my socio-political beliefs and is therefore a threat to my integrity" is simply a more sophisticated way of saying "You bad man set fire to my teddy bear make me sad I hate you".

It troubles me to be reminded that I'm human and that I'm subject to the same blanket-clinging reach for ego-supply that everybody else is. It's not that I strive to be some sort of impossibly evolved super-being, but that I am subject to the same illusions and weaknesses I see in people I disdain.

I look out my window and see some drunk, piss soaked loser harassing people just by being in their presence and when it occurs to me that he and I are both cut from the same cloth it sends a chill down my spine. I am aware, of course, that my choices in life, as well as the genetic deal I have been dealt are responsible for the differences between us, but at base we are still far too similar for my comfort.

My sense of alienation and my need to be separate are at odds with my intrinsically gregarious nature, which had been corrupted by negative experiences. This creates an incongruity with how I see and react to the people around me. I suppose this is as good a definition of mental (or social) illness as any.

What types of people do you value more of less than others?

I am most judgmental of people who all too easily go with the grain. People who follow trends. People who embrace consumerism and popular culture as more of a virtue than intelligence and individualism. Those who are heedlessly, willfully ignorant. Those who feel it is their right to negatively impede on my essence and beliefs, be it through religious indoctrination, violence, or any other behavior that invades my right to live and think as I wish. People who go on and on unquestioningly. Human sheep.

Despite my callous nature, I believe in courtesy. I understand that courtesy in itself is just another rule or an expectation we are all blindly asked to follow, but nevertheless, it is, I think, necessary for progress. Courtesy allows us to go on with our lives and realize our potential unfettered by roadblocks and unnecessary adversarial bullshlt.

I dislike carrot chasers: people who are overly ambitious just for the sake of it and whom have no particular vision to apply to their ambition. They suck up all the oxygen and leave a trail of hot air in their wake. If you have no discernible purpose or passion or blueprint for what you want to do with your life, then step aside and become a cog in the machine; the world needs those types too. It irks me to see the uninspired faking it. All that remains for them is the pursuit of money for it's own sake, which I find to be a sad and hollow undertaking. If that's your plan, fine, you have a right to it, but kindly get the f*ck out of my light.

If you were someone else looking at you, create two value statements about your value judgement about how you perceive yourself from the perspective of someone else. One of them should be positive and one negative.

+naps is at base decent and kind, but he expresses his pain with a reluctance to reveal these virtues. He is interesting and cool, and his retreative nature always leaves people wanting more. I want to have sex with him.

-naps is lazy and undisciplined. He squanders his potential in pursuit of comfort and then blames the world for his failures when they're mostly his own fault.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:47 pm

mysza wrote:To be honest I usually don't judge people, just social processes and organisation.



We all do, constantly. You open the door and a large black man is standing on your doorstep with red high-heeled shoes, bleached blonde hair and makeup singing "how much is that doggy in the window" and before he's even opened his/her mouth, you've made a value judgement.

We do it when we see a homeless person, we do it when we see an orange-faced perfume sales woman in a department store. We judge everyone, all of the time, with no knowledge about them at all.

The question is, do we recognise that we do it? And, if so, how well are we able to articulate how we would be perceived by others.

-- 10 Dec 2018, 16:54 --

naps wrote:
I am, but it troubles me a little bit because I believe our value systems are based on an instinctive need for acceptance and security: "This person does not share my socio-political beliefs and is therefore a threat to my integrity" is simply a more sophisticated way of saying "You bad man set fire to my teddy bear make me sad I hate you".

It troubles me to be reminded that I'm human and that I'm subject to the same blanket-clinging reach for ego-supply that everybody else is. It's not that I strive to be some sort of impossibly evolved super-being, but that I am subject to the same illusions and weaknesses I see in people I disdain.


So, you're saying that we create our value judgements of others, not so much as how we see them, but more about how that judgement makes us feel. Interesting point of view.

I was looking at it from a more 'socially conditioned' point of view, but that lends a new dimension.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby naps » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:26 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:
naps wrote:
I am, but it troubles me a little bit because I believe our value systems are based on an instinctive need for acceptance and security: "This person does not share my socio-political beliefs and is therefore a threat to my integrity" is simply a more sophisticated way of saying "You bad man set fire to my teddy bear make me sad I hate you".

It troubles me to be reminded that I'm human and that I'm subject to the same blanket-clinging reach for ego-supply that everybody else is. It's not that I strive to be some sort of impossibly evolved super-being, but that I am subject to the same illusions and weaknesses I see in people I disdain.


So, you're saying that we create our value judgements of others, not so much as how we see them, but more about how that judgement makes us feel. Interesting point of view.

I was looking at it from a more 'socially conditioned' point of view, but that lends a new dimension.


I think our behavior is more emotionally motivated than we're able to see or willing to admit.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby easiersaidthandone » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:32 pm

Are you aware of how much you judge people on your own internal value system?

Yes I am. I am mostly judgement-free. I do not judge people, I just don't care enough about them. Mostly due to indifference on my part. I don't hold grudges either. I'm too self-absorbed. Which is rather useful, I get told I come off as a very open person, people feel comfortable around me. I of course still critique.

What types of people do you value more of less than others?

I appreciate people with grit and those who've achieved power, but I think this is different than value.

I only value those who have something to offer me, whether it's knowledge, pleasure, or some kind of material benefit.

Anyone who gets in the way of my goals are stopped. Those who provide nothing for me are mannequins to me.

If you were someone else looking at you, create two value statements about your value judgement about how you perceive yourself from the perspective of someone else. One of them should be positive and one negative.

"easi is a really cool dude. He understands and accepts me for who I am. I feel like I've known him my whole life."

"easi is a self-absorbed as*hole who doesn't do anything for anyone but himself. Don't expect him to ever go out of his way for you."
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby justonemoreperson » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:53 am

naps wrote:
Despite my callous nature, I believe in courtesy. I understand that courtesy in itself is just another rule or an expectation we are all blindly asked to follow, but nevertheless, it is, I think, necessary for progress. Courtesy allows us to go on with our lives and realize our potential unfettered by roadblocks and unnecessary adversarial bullshlt.


This is an interesting topic, that of courtesy.

As a child, I saw this as power play. I would do something and I'd be told to say sorry. There was more emphasis on this if there was no way to repair the damage. Sorry acted as a substitute for repair and it did, as you say, provide a framework for people to move forward.

I would readily say sorry; it was never an issue, as the response was nearly always close to a miracle. Not only would the person forgive you, meaning the trouble you were in was gone, but they'd like you more. Your validation of who they are is more important to them than the damage you caused. "Sorry" is gold dust.

Some seem to see it as a recognition of their worth, but others seem to see it as a moral obligation. Either way, when you wrong someone, you have a social debt, and courtesy is like small change you can donate to the cause.

That said, I have done stuff where people have said, "Don't apologise, it's beyond that." Like I said, small change, not wads of social cash.

There's an expectation of courtesy, even if someone puts you into a position for themselves to expect it. Someone holds a door open for you and you walk through it without a word; watch for the reaction, as it's nearly always there.

It's almost like a passive-aggressive power play, where we test the relationship we have with strangers by creating these little social exercises to see where our "standing" is; do we look like a person deserving courtesy (or respect)? If it doesn't come, then we can react against it, fully confident that we've created an environment where we have the moral high ground.

It's a tightrope though; if you give more courtesy to someone than the situation requires then there's a tendency for them to resist it, as if you're making a social comment that they "need" more looking after because they're socially weak.

The better you know someone, the less you need it, which tends to correspond with it being a social testing exercise. If it were genuinely there to demonstrate respect then we'd be more likely to be courteous to our friends, but we tend to be less courteous, as it's accepted as not as important.

I'm as rude as f*ck to most of my friends, and they just find it funny or they throw it back at me. Getting to the point where it's not needed is a social goal.
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Re: Value Judgements

Postby xcagedsilhouttex » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:51 am

^An interesting perspective to think about.
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