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Psychopathy, a different perspective

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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:11 am

on extremes fo sho pareto rules
i was talking about "normal" people that 80% we interact with
''our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Quoth » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:18 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I tried a course of SSRIs for about 6 months. I noticed that it only made me flatter, more dissociated most of the time. It induced a generalised anxiety (bodily sensation), sickness, and issues with sexual performance. I felt tired all the time and my eating was worse.
This was pretty much my experiance with SSRIs.

In my case I don’t favour stimulants as I have periods of hypomanic silliness and they tend to induce even greater silliness.

......

On the subject of class, I would agree that it matters and have considered starting a thread on the topic, I didn’t as I can’t see a way of discussing it without it becoming a narcissistic pissing contest.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:28 am

Quoth thanks for reminding me of the term still face,
It was the keyword lacking to find a paper i needed

also what you said about fear is true, there was a brazilian study looking into it and the hole is deeper than previously thought


Psychopaths feel fear but see no danger

while psychopathic individuals may suffer from a dysfunctional threat system, people with posttraumatic stress disorder may have a hyperactive threat system


i find fascinating how subtleties like this can change axioms that affect us so much

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 113745.htm
''our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:10 am

PsychoGenesis wrote:on extremes fo sho pareto rules
i was talking about "normal" people that 80% we interact with

thinking about that
assuming a high psychopath rate of 10% of the population
20% of 10% is only 2%

cant say for other disorders im not dx'ed
''our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:21 am

Quoth wrote:If I were to spit ball I’d say that psychopathy is less the scary monster and more like a learning difficulty which is to emotion as dyslexia is to language. A fundamental disconnect between experiance and affective responce.

I suspect that rather than making a child more resistant it actually makes the child more vulnerable to the development of personality problems. We know that the ground work for a personality disorder is laid in the first few years of life, at a time when most of us no longer have any memory as adults. That the child requires a caregiver to provide empathetic responses to its attempts at interaction. The still face experiments being a fairly good and accessible example of the process/problem. However in the case of psychopathy the ‘still face’ isn’t an issue with the parent but intrinsic to the child. That’s just one example but it’s isn’t difficult to see how a child with those kind of issues would have trouble reaching other developmental milestones.

Interesting ideas to muse on. A lot to think about now. Getting to the root of it, rather than fussing around with what color all the leaves are.

I'd be open to a discussion about class. It's obvious that many of us are from different classes. Even if it degenerates to a pissing contest, I think it's pretty obvious who will still gain something from it. I was about to mention yourself in an example but stopped short. It's obvious that you're from a different upbringing to mine and it fascinates me how similar frustrations could manifest power in different ways. If you start a separate thread, I'll give it an earnest attempt within the limits of what I can comfortably share.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby solemnlysworn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:27 am

Quoth wrote:In my case I don’t favour stimulants as I have periods of hypomanic silliness and they tend to induce even greater silliness.

......

On the subject of class, I would agree that it matters and have considered starting a thread on the topic, I didn’t as I can’t see a way of discussing it without it becoming a narcissistic pissing contest.


That's fun time!
.
We could try then if it fails blame seabreezeblue
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Solowolfpack » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:41 pm

Quoth wrote:
Solowolfpack wrote:http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychotic-affective-disorders/hidden-suffering-psychopath Pg1.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychot ... h/page/0/1 pg2.

It’s an article I pulled of the Internet, so grain of salt I suppose but I find this interesting because it paints a completely different picture than the general public has and the one that is expressed on this board. Does this resonate with anyone here?


I’ve read it before but then as now it strikes me as more realistic than the usual caricature of psychopathy. If we consider the neurophysiological construct which underpins psychopathy, fallon himself provides evidence that the idea of a psychopath as unperturbable is fundamentally flawed; he himself suffered from OCD (the anxiety disorder not the PD) as a young man and panic attacks until the age of 35. Neuroimaging also tells us that they can experience affective empathy with effort, that they do experiance fear and that fearlessness is a result of impaired threat detection, that they do experiance anxiety, clinical studies show that they can develop trauma disorders (albeit mainly from direct application of harm).....the list goes on.

The idea of the psychopath as seen in the zeitgeist (which is mainly derived from Cleckley) persists because it appeals to a need for goblins and ghoulies within the psyche of the general populous and hence it sells.

If I were to spit ball I’d say that psychopathy is less the scary monster and more like a learning difficulty which is to emotion as dyslexia is to language. A fundamental disconnect between experiance and affective responce.

I suspect that rather than making a child more resistant it actually makes the child more vulnerable to the development of personality problems. We know that the ground work for a personality disorder is laid in the first few years of life, at a time when most of us no longer have any memory as adults. That the child requires a caregiver to provide empathetic responses to its attempts at interaction. The still face experiments being a fairly good and accessible example of the process/problem. However in the case of psychopathy the ‘still face’ isn’t an issue with the parent but intrinsic to the child. That’s just one example but it’s isn’t difficult to see how a child with those kind of issues would have trouble reaching other developmental milestones.

Where issues with ego-identity exist they tend to dominate the structure, to borrow Millon’s analogy, it’s like pouring a bucket of black paint into a bucket of white paint; the black dominates.
And just as with every other PD the nature of the child’s upbringing has a powerful effect on the nature of the compensations/defence mechanisms it utilises. I would be surprised if there weren’t many people out there who shares fallon’s physiology but display, for example, dependent personality traits or something else completely inconsistent with mainstream concepts of psychopathy.

Personally I favour Millon’s way of looking at psychopathy (and PDs in general for that matter). Viewing it as a personality structure distinct from the antisocial but more commonly existing as part of a constellation of traits or comorbid disorders.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that diagnostic labels of any description describe no more and no less than an individual’s ability to reach a given set of criteria. At best they represent a fraction of an individual, not its entirety.

As to whether I find it relatable, yes there are several aspects which resonate with my own experience.

reading that back it’s pretty prosaic, maybe not worth the effort


Worth the effort as far as I’m concerned, I’m more interested in learning about Milan and his ideas on the subject now. Also the idea that psychopathy is closer to a learning disorder on emotions and empathy is interesting. I’ve always looked at myself as being a bit emotionally retarded. I wish I could find a more flattering to put it but that’s how it feels to me. Watching someone ball their eyes out in front of everyone and acuse them of faking because it’s just to overdone to be real and have everyone tell me what the hell is wrong with me.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:50 pm

Quoth wrote:
solemnlysworn wrote:I tried a course of SSRIs for about 6 months. I noticed that it only made me flatter, more dissociated most of the time. It induced a generalised anxiety (bodily sensation), sickness, and issues with sexual performance. I felt tired all the time and my eating was worse.
This was pretty much my experiance with SSRIs.

In my case I don’t favour stimulants as I have periods of hypomanic silliness and they tend to induce even greater silliness.

......

On the subject of class, I would agree that it matters and have considered starting a thread on the topic, I didn’t as I can’t see a way of discussing it without it becoming a narcissistic pissing contest.


This is interesting: I was put on SSRI's at one point but it just made me more aggressive and unable to control my behaviour.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Solowolfpack » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:23 pm

Has anyone actually tried mood stabilizers, someone who is diagnosed? Lithium, depakote etc? They were really trying to push me in that direction. I’ve also heard of people with ASPD being treated with anti psychotics. No way, I’m going for that, unless they have to hospitalize me for some reason.

Actually I really liked benzodiazepines, I can take them as needed and it really took the edge off quite a bit. My DR stopped giving them to me, The one thing I actually didn’t mind, after a year and a half I had no addiction to them whatsoever. So I really don’t understand what the problem was.
Last edited by Solowolfpack on Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:26 pm

The only thing that I find really works is weed.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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