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Psychopathy, a different perspective

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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:27 pm

searched ''psychopathy'' in OP's website, first article that showed up points to differences between ASPD/psychopathy i think are relevant to this thread

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/trauma- ... d-violence


ASPD is more related to secondary psychopathy and impulsiveness
it has more to do with serotonin IMHO(warrior gene comes to mind)

callousness is linked to primary psychopathy
which is a function of Oxytocin
Last edited by PsychoGenesis on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby solemnlysworn » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 pm

The article was actually useful. I hadn't conceptualised aspd as so reactive to environmental cues before but it makes more sense than my model.

Thanks

-- Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:45 pm --

What's also cool is it makes sense of my lack of ability to give weight to consequences as a kid but to grow up and have that mellow out yet still have the affective orientation I always did. F2 relates somewhat to executive functioning which gets better until around 25 but obviously upbringing makes a huge difference too and so we have people never really develop out of it (especially with epigenetic mutations that demand so).
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:47 pm

you're welcome



the more people get informed the higher chance we have to find a real solution, be it in a pill or a better moral code
yeah i actually believe on it(cognitively :lol:)
''our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby solemnlysworn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:00 am

I wonder how the sensibilities of people with aspd or psychopathy are governed by social class. Last year somebody made a compelling argument for different flavours reflecting class values and so I dug into sociological thought on class but never really was able to make a connection back to aspd or psychopathy that was in line with the theory
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:06 am

i think our society really has nothing to do with it
the warrior gene theory is that for thousands of years our ancestors had to choose a tribe leader and on periods of scarcity the more violent phenotype was the chosen one to increase the chance of survival, but not always.
Last edited by PsychoGenesis on Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby solemnlysworn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:07 am

I agree with that but I think how the archetype is expressed might be different depending on the environment they're placed in.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby PsychoGenesis » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:10 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I agree with that but I think how the archetype is expressed might be different depending on the environment they're placed in.

sure, yet i think social classes don't have much to do with it


although someone that is poor and low in conscientiousness has a higher chance of going to jail no doubt, impulsive people gonna be impulsive in one way or another ime, and most of the time it's easy to see it coming


not saying it can't be worked tho and environment sure plays a big role
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our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure''


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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:17 am

Solowolfpack wrote:http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychotic-affective-disorders/hidden-suffering-psychopath Pg1.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychot ... h/page/0/1 pg2.

It’s an article I pulled of the Internet, so grain of salt I suppose but I find this interesting because it paints a completely different picture than the general public has and the one that is expressed on this board. Does this resonate with anyone here?


Surprisingly interesting read. Not because it's something I didn't already suspect but it's interesting how it's becoming a mainstream idea. Away from the cliched boogyman scapegoat umbrella for resentful outcasts. I think underneath the obvious narrative, it's a commentary about desire in collectives vs individual desires and the identification of power. I've been droning on and on about it and at this point it's getting bland so I'll stop with this post.

As for personal resonance with the ideas in the article. Generally speaking yes. I desire to be defined for every aspect of my being, which is a shared trait among many living things. Now this desire for definition for all my aspects can express itself as power if it manifests through action or through dreams and fantasy.

I'm curious to know more about your opinions about it OP.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:42 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I agree with that but I think how the archetype is expressed might be different depending on the environment they're placed in.

I am curious about this too. Surely the class values will be expressed in behaviors.
Instead of fists and broken bottles, the elite ruling class uses lawyers, words, and drones.

Might find this interesting.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/60-words

It's 60 words that can lock someone up for life or call down bombs. All done via lawyers with video conference calls. The shot callers here aren't your gang bangers sending coded messages inside anal cavities. They sitting in old money mansions surrounded by multi million dollar art works speaking via encrypted sat phones.

I'm certain class matters. I just don't have the axioms to say it without using examples.

The pen is mightier than the sword is a term that jomp brought up a few days ago. I think it applies here in how power demonstrates it's existence.
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Re: Psychopathy, a different perspective

Postby Quoth » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:04 am

Solowolfpack wrote:http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychotic-affective-disorders/hidden-suffering-psychopath Pg1.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychot ... h/page/0/1 pg2.

It’s an article I pulled of the Internet, so grain of salt I suppose but I find this interesting because it paints a completely different picture than the general public has and the one that is expressed on this board. Does this resonate with anyone here?


I’ve read it before but then as now it strikes me as more realistic than the usual caricature of psychopathy. If we consider the neurophysiological construct which underpins psychopathy, fallon himself provides evidence that the idea of a psychopath as unperturbable is fundamentally flawed; he himself suffered from OCD (the anxiety disorder not the PD) as a young man and panic attacks until the age of 35. Neuroimaging also tells us that they can experience affective empathy with effort, that they do experiance fear and that fearlessness is a result of impaired threat detection, that they do experiance anxiety, clinical studies show that they can develop trauma disorders (albeit mainly from direct application of harm).....the list goes on.

The idea of the psychopath as seen in the zeitgeist (which is mainly derived from Cleckley) persists because it appeals to a need for goblins and ghoulies within the psyche of the general populous and hence it sells.

If I were to spit ball I’d say that psychopathy is less the scary monster and more like a learning difficulty which is to emotion as dyslexia is to language. A fundamental disconnect between experiance and affective responce.

I suspect that rather than making a child more resistant it actually makes the child more vulnerable to the development of personality problems. We know that the ground work for a personality disorder is laid in the first few years of life, at a time when most of us no longer have any memory as adults. That the child requires a caregiver to provide empathetic responses to its attempts at interaction. The still face experiments being a fairly good and accessible example of the process/problem. However in the case of psychopathy the ‘still face’ isn’t an issue with the parent but intrinsic to the child. That’s just one example but it’s isn’t difficult to see how a child with those kind of issues would have trouble reaching other developmental milestones.

Where issues with ego-identity exist they tend to dominate the structure, to borrow Millon’s analogy, it’s like pouring a bucket of black paint into a bucket of white paint; the black dominates.
And just as with every other PD the nature of the child’s upbringing has a powerful effect on the nature of the compensations/defence mechanisms it utilises. I would be surprised if there weren’t many people out there who shares fallon’s physiology but display, for example, dependent personality traits or something else completely inconsistent with mainstream concepts of psychopathy.

Personally I favour Millon’s way of looking at psychopathy (and PDs in general for that matter). Viewing it as a personality structure distinct from the antisocial but more commonly existing as part of a constellation of traits or comorbid disorders.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that diagnostic labels of any description describe no more and no less than an individual’s ability to reach a given set of criteria. At best they represent a fraction of an individual, not its entirety.

As to whether I find it relatable, yes there are several aspects which resonate with my own experience.

reading that back it’s pretty prosaic, maybe not worth the effort
as if in a broken jug for one backwards moment
water might keep its shape

https://youtu.be/VivuMRzQyw0
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