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Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

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Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Reaper » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:11 pm

When you look at most of the traits of psychopathy you get the impression of someone who would struggle to hold down a job, let alone maintain a career or even a long-term relationship:


GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTHA grossly inflated view of one’s abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOMAn excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHYA lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

PARASITIC LIFESTYLEAn intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLSExpressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALSAn inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

IMPULSIVITYThe occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

IRRESPONSIBILITYRepeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPSA lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.


A lot of the research on psychopaths was done on prison inmates, so are we really seeing a clear picture of psychopathy or is the research skewed too much to truly indicate what a psychopath is. Since there is no actual evidence that a psychopath is capable of maintaining a successful career or relationship, are we to assume that psychopaths are really nothing more than failures at life? What are your thoughts on that.

- Do you think the PCL-R gives an accurate description of psychopathy in general? Explain.

- If you don't agree with the PCL-R, what do you think a more accurate list of psychopathic traits should look like?

- If you are a psychopath or suspect you're one, would you consider yourself a successful one? Why or why not? How many of those traits on that list above apply to you?

- If you're not a psychopath yourself but have known (or currently know) people who are, are any of them successful? Explain why they are or aren't.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Reaper » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:36 pm

I came across this article recently: Why psychopaths are so good at getting ahead

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/18/why-psychopaths-are-so-good-at-getting-ahead.html

As a result, the prevalence of psychopathy in CEOs and business leaders is four times that of regular people, according to Jon Ronson, author of The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry. While only about 1 percent of the population are psychopaths, 4 percent of business leaders and CEOs are psychopaths, Ronson says in a much-watched TED Talk.


He claims that the prevalence of psychopathy in CEO's and business leaders is four times that of regular people, but there's no research to back that claim up. It's only theory, which means that it could be a bunch of bullshlt. Where did he get the 4 percent from?

Has anyone seen any actual research results on successful psychopaths? If so, post them here. I highly doubt there are any.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby xcagedsilhouttex » Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:56 pm

People with personality disorders have a series of maladaptive behaviours meaning that one or more aspects of their life is not functional. How disfunctional would depend on the severity.

Here are my issues:

If someone manages to change their maladaptive behaviour to their own advantage surely that behaviour is no longer maladaptive?

Where are these CEO's that openly admit to criminal behaviour? Doesn't seem like anyone would invest in your business if you did and I was sure that you needed at least some criminal behaviour to be diagnosed.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby dobiedobiedoo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:11 pm

Psychopathy is a myth heavy subject. I have read some research on "successful" Psychopaths, I'll post it when I get back home.
Typically, the PCL-R is not only used for diagnosis, but also for risk assessment. Basically the higher your score, the higher is the chance you'll reoffend.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Reaper » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:13 pm

xcagedsilhouttex wrote:People with personality disorders have a series of maladaptive behaviours meaning that one or more aspects of their life is not functional. How disfunctional would depend on the severity.

Here are my issues:

If someone manages to change their maladaptive behaviour to their own advantage surely that behaviour is no longer maladaptive?


If the change in behavior is only beneficial to you and no-one else, then it would still be considered maladaptive.

I see being able to con and manipulate people as a personal advantage. but is it an advantage to anyone else? No. In fact, it's a disadvantage to others, therefore it's considered maladaptive.

Where are these CEO's that openly admit to criminal behaviour? Doesn't seem like anyone would invest in your business if you did and I was sure that you needed at least some criminal behaviour to be diagnosed.


Apparently, not all psychopaths are criminals. Of course, I can't prove that and I don't think anyone else can either.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby PsychoGenesis » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:01 pm

Reaper wrote:I came across this article recently: Why psychopaths are so good at getting ahead

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/18/why-psychopaths-are-so-good-at-getting-ahead.html

As a result, the prevalence of psychopathy in CEOs and business leaders is four times that of regular people, according to Jon Ronson, author of The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry. While only about 1 percent of the population are psychopaths, 4 percent of business leaders and CEOs are psychopaths, Ronson says in a much-watched TED Talk.


He claims that the prevalence of psychopathy in CEO's and business leaders is four times that of regular people, but there's no research to back that claim up. It's only theory, which means that it could be a bunch of bullshlt. Where did he get the 4 percent from?

Has anyone seen any actual research results on successful psychopaths? If so, post them here. I highly doubt there are any.


this:

And, as with other mental conditions, a person is not 100 percent psychopathic or 100 percent "normal." Psychopathy lies on a continuum, says Galynker, meaning that psychopathic traits and behaviors manifest differently in different people.


I like to think of the disorder this way:

ASPD = average stereotype/personality that manifests itself in people when they are reactive to the environment

Psychopathy = prototype/proactive personality that doesn't conform to arbitrary rules



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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby dobiedobiedoo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:07 pm

Little is known about successful psychopathy. In part, this is because the leading measure of psychopathy (the PCL-R) seems to assume there is chiefly one characteristic adaptation to psychopathic traits: violent and other criminal behavior (Skeem & Cooke, 2010a, 2010b). The vast majority of research has used the PCL-R and with criminal samples—by method-
ological fiat, yielding information only on unsuccessful psychopathy.
Although some efforts have been made to study successful psychopathy using alternative samples (e.g., community residents), many of these investigations reflect an assumption that successful psychopaths are successful only in the sense that they have avoided conviction and punishment for (inevitable) criminal behavior. As a group, the successful psychopaths recruited for such investigations often have histories of arrest and fail to attain what might be regarded as even average professional, economic, or social status. For example, Widom (1978) placed a classified ad in a local newspaper to recruit “charming, aggressive, carefree people who are impulsively irresponsible but are good at handling people and at looking after number one” (p. 83). The majority of her 28 community respondents were socioeconomically disadvantaged and had histories both of arrest and psychiatric treatment. In a more recent series of studies conducted with samples from temporary employment agencies, “successful psychopaths were defined as those scoring high on the PCL-R but who had never been convicted for any crime based on official criminal records” (Gao & Raine, 2010, p. 198, emphasis added). Some of these studies yield no significant differences between successful and unsuccessful psychopaths in SES, intelligence, psychopathology, and other theoretically relevant indicators (e.g., Ishikawa, Raine, Lencz, Bihrle, & Lacasse, 2001; Raine et al., 2004). The disjunction between high-functioning cases described in theoretical work (e.g., slick and coldhearted businessmen, egotistical and manipulative politicians) and the struggling antisocial groups recruited for these studies points to a need for alternative ways of operationalizing successful
psychopathy (cf., Hall & Benning, 2006).


Regarding the Psychopathy continuum, all disorders are until you can prove they affect a person's life.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby naps » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:20 pm

xcagedsilhouttex wrote:People with personality disorders have a series of maladaptive behaviours meaning that one or more aspects of their life is not functional. How disfunctional would depend on the severity.


That's what I was going to say. If you have a PD, any PD, success is going to be harder to achieve, but by no means impossible.

Where are these CEO's that openly admit to criminal behaviour?


I think this is also a myth heavy subject. In the majority of cases, one does not just step into the position of CEO. It takes a lot of work, as an unprincipled intelligence, and often a gift for finesse. Would someone with the traits Reaper listed be able to easily climb to the top?

I think the main motivator is greed. I don't ever recalling seeing greed or glutinousness directly linked to psychopathic behavior.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Solowolfpack » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:21 pm

I think SOME of the traits can help get a psychopath ahead like being self assured, cocky, manipulative, charming and have the ability to bypass social expectations to get ahead. I think that sooner or later if they are high on the scale they will fall to temptation. If a psycho finds himself in a position to fudge numbers for his own profit can he resist? I doubt it.

I’m not a psychopath, I personally think I’ve known atleast 2 true psychopaths in my life (probably more) one was a toxic piece of shlt that I wouldn’t piss on if he was on fire. Literally wrecked everyone’s life he go involved with to some capacity. Not successful at all, spent more time in prison than out his entire life.

The other was a very successful drug dealer, you see him in a brand new Escalade big shiny rims, riding around like he is King Kong, then he gets busted the state ceases everything he goes to prison. He gets out, rinse and repeat same pattern. So stupid too if I knew when he was selling again by what he was driving and how he was dressed so did the cops but that’s how that goes. This one end up getting shot in the face and losing an eye in a drug deal. He’s still around, he’s not involved in drugs anymore and he’s pretty much just a loser now. Got arrested recently for illegally cropping ears on people’s dogs for money without a license lol
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:38 pm

Average person = Failure at life
According to most standards.
If you're alive, I think doing okay.
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