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Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby msPerfect » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:16 am

all i have met were very successful and rich. Super calculated and cold mind.
We need to WIN remember?

Only 1 is a killer and in prison 2nd time. I think he wanted to get there because of his authority there.

all others too smart and driven to power. Super well groomed ahhh handsome!

I think some people misconsept sociopath. I think CRAZY people are just stupid crazy. But sometimes others thinking about them as ASPD. while we are likable and extremely smart :mrgreen:

ASPD need to WIN and POWER. Should Succeed $$$!

Unless it is goes with other PD
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Quoth » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:42 am

Personally I tend to view the affective aspects of psychopathy proper as something akin to the emotional equivalent of a learning difficulty.

That said...

All personality disorders are exaggerations of existing personality styles. In a sense personality is like a giant complicated game of rock, paper, scissors in that traits that will serve you in one situation may place you at a disadvantage in another where the antithetical traits are desirable.
It’s also a little like evolutionary specialisation in that a species with a greater degree of specialisation will be more competitive under a certain collection of selection pressures. However the more a species specialises the more vulnerable to change it becomes. PDs are what happens when traits/defence mechanisms harden to such a degree that they become inflexible over a number of different situations (typically driven by the need to compensate for impairments of personality development). While many pwPDs might like to view themselves as the orca what they are in reality is a Yangtze river dolphin.

Whether psychopathy is successful or maladaptive really depends on where we draw the line of between healthy and pathological. Many narcissistic people are successful (termed the self-confident style by Oldham) but once we push into the realms of npd, where grandiosity has parted company with reality, it becomes maladaptive. Same with the paranoid structures, the vigilant style is one of the more successful but once vigilance breaks contact with reality and becomes persecutory distortion/dillusion its about as much use as bacon in Baghdad.

Psychopathic traits will give a person an advantage in a number of situations and a disadvantage in others. As those traits are pushed to extremes the number of situations where it is a disadvantage become more diverse and the number where it is an advantage become increasingly finite.

-- Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:44 am --

Solowolfpack wrote:Got arrested recently for illegally cropping ears on people’s dogs for money without a license lol
Sounds like a disgrace to the species.
as if in a broken jug for one backwards moment
water might keep its shape

https://youtu.be/VivuMRzQyw0
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Reaper » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:21 am

msPerfect wrote:all i have met were very successful and rich. Super calculated and cold mind.


I highly doubt they were psychopaths. or maybe they were and just sucked at hiding that fact, since you apparently claim to know they were.

We need to WIN remember?


Who is 'we'? You sound more like a narcissist.

If you need to WIN then clearly you have some insecurities you need to work on.

Psychopaths want to win (whether it be at making a lot of money or in some other way for some other reason), but wanting to win and actually succeeding at winning are two different things.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Dandy » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:39 am

Reaper wrote:If the change in behavior is only beneficial to you and no-one else, then it would still be considered maladaptive.

Eh, so the way I've managed to improve my financial situation could be still considered maladaptive if I was single. But since I happen to be in a relationship and living with someone and it will be directly beneficial for them as well, it's not maladaptive.

Not to say I'm into taking advantage of others, because I'm definitely not. But you can't evaluate people like that, according to external factors.

I'm a bit scared by certain major changes proposed by my spouse in relation to our finances, because I don't want to be financially or otherwise dependent on another person. Never again. We have certain history together that plays a role here.
I would like to save a bit more, before anything else.

So I'm driven by fear, hesitating and pulling back. But would you know that if you looked at the situation from the outside? Would I be the one appearing selfish?

You couldn't possibly know.
"One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes"

DX: BP2, PTSD
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:49 am

Just off the top of my head I know four psychopaths according to that checklist. They tick pratically all the boxes quite comfortably and they arn't your murders or gangsters.

My baby cousin
My mother
The cat
Your average 16 year old girl

Lets use the baby and go through the checklist.
Grandiose sense of self - little b*tch cries and sh!ts all over the place. Demanding little c*nt expects me to feed her and clean her crap up. That is lack of impulse control too. Can't even hold her poo in. A little uncomfortable and she screams. She has no long term goals, she is lives a completely parasitic lifestyle has absolutely no empathy and regards for how I am feeling. She would happily swap me for another carer.

PCL-R by itself is sh*t. The whole psychopathy idea is sh*t if taken without context of the person being examined with it.

It's more about what is expected from someone by society depending on who they are. A baby isn't expected to hold down a job or add value. Neither is a cat or your average 16 yo girl. If someone fails their social obligations they start ticking boxes.

If I go just by the checklist, any infant is the most psychopathic creature there is followed by pets, then children, going up to the hard working self sacrificing father who is effectively an unappreciated slave to his family, company, country.

For any real checklist to work, one would need another checklist of what is the expectations of healthy behavior for each class of individual by age and sex and compare outcomes to that.

Having two checklists to compare out come with expectation, then it becomes a measure of value and expectations and not about health of a character or personality. All these stupid checklists and diagnosis it's more an economic tool than an indicator of psychological well being.

Right now with only half a checklist, there isn't a formal criteria to compare what is expected and hence anyone can throw the psycho label on just about anyone or no one.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby justonemoreperson » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:56 am

Quoth wrote:
Whether psychopathy is successful or maladaptive really depends on where we draw the line of between healthy and pathological.


That line changes and can do so by the hour.

I can relate an experience and I'm sure that everyone will identify with it to an extent; the rest is just degrees.

At the moment, I'm sitting in an office, dressed appropriately, having showered and collected everything I need to get my work done today. Some of it is boring and yet I'll push through that because there's a bag of cash at the end of the rainbow. The reason I've done this is because I looked at the process and determined what I'd do in advance. I'm able to do this because I don't have a need to do anything else; there's no driving force pushing me in an alternate direction.

Some time ago, I was on a train and busting for a piss. It was a small train and there was only one toilet working and it had been occupied for some time.

At some point, something went click, and I was no longer able to rationally reason through the appropriate behaviour and I forced the toilet door open and dragged the guy that was in there out, so that I could take a piss.

When confronted, "You can't do that!" my reply was, "Clearly, I can."

As a result, I ended up off the train at the next stop. I guess it wasn't an appropriate time for a grammar lesson.

I think the difference between behaviours in PD's is how personally important it is. If something is personal (like the need to take a piss), then the ability to rationalise objectively the behaviour becomes harder.

To that degree, I believe that those who have the genetic component are able to be more rational in most things, as they have not been subjected to behaviour that makes more of the world personal to them.

If a person with the genetic component also has an unstructured, careless upbringing, then they're more likely to drag people out of toilets because more negative things will personally relate.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby Squaredonutwheels » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:19 am

justonemoreperson wrote:
Quoth wrote:
Whether psychopathy is successful or maladaptive really depends on where we draw the line of between healthy and pathological.


That line changes and can do so by the hour.


I think that line changes depending on who you are and what collective you find yourself in as well. It changes not just by time but by location as well.
Kill randoms for fun - bad
Kill for food for youself - okay
Kill for food for the community - good
Kill other humans for your country - heroic
Killing is killing. It's who you kill and where and when you kill them that also matters.
At the end of the day, it's not individual but always related to some collective that the individual finds themselves in and what value the bring to the collective.

I think some people are genetically more predisposed to kill or do other things. As long as it is faced in the direction that is valuable to the collective they are in, it is not only acceptable but is raised up as beneficial.

That is why some ruthless businessmen rise to the top. They do things that your average joe can't do. Because it is inside the collective and for the collective it is a positive trait. Turn that power into the wrong direction or be on the other side of it and it's a negative trait. To possess the potential to do either for or against, is power and I've noticed that it is this amoral power that attracts people. Maybe that is why some people are attracted to maladaption. It implies benefit as long as this person is on their side.

I think it's about harnessing the individual power for the collective which is labelled beneficial.
If the individuals power is for himself only, it is labelled as maladaptive not because it is maladaptive to the individual, but because the collective is outside himself and does not benefit from that trait.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby ASPDADHDETC » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:10 pm

I have not read all the comments on this but...
I would say Im on the milder end of ASPD that said Isn't " winning at life" subjective ?
Everything I have set out to do I have accomplished and I have been successful in putting myself in a position where I will not ever have to work. I am well respected in political scenes and am sought after for social interactions. I want more for myself but I like to do things one step at a time.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby cutecactus » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:24 am

Reaper wrote:When you look at most of the traits of psychopathy you get the impression of someone who would struggle to hold down a job, let alone maintain a career or even a long-term relationship

Isn't that kind of the point of the diagnosis for a mental disorder? Telling you what you fail at which got you into the position to apply for one in the first place?

I assume if you go to a psych they it's not like they hand you the literal checklist and instead give you a longer test with more questions disguised so you can't tell which one relates to which trait anymore to see if you have the disorder.

To answer the first questions I don't know but it sure looks as outdated as some of the tests I've gotten and I didn't think most of the questions in those had anything to do with anything. One question I remember because it was so ridiculous was, "would you like to be a librarian?". What does that even say about a person? The newest test I did was last revised in the 90s and it's almost 2020. In general I think the results are useless without a good interpreter because of this. Norms and values can change drastically in a decade let alone multiple and that's what a lot of these disguised questions depend on.

I've never done or heard of a psychological test that included questions about the internet.

- If you're not a psychopath yourself but have known (or currently know) people who are, are any of them successful? Explain why they are or aren't.

My cousin and he killed himself after being in and out of mental wards and maybe prison so, no. Some people I knew while I was in a mental ward, I don't know how they're doing now but none of them seemed like misunderstood prodigies.
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Re: Average Psychopath = Failure At Life?

Postby furhuj » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:39 pm

Such characteristics makes psychopaths possess a charismatic leadership skills. That is why many of them are successful in career and were able to climb their desire achievement ladder faster than others. However, most of them have failed relationships.
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