Burnout and hangover

I started abstaining from masturbation shortly before my sixteenth birthday, based on information about adverse hormonal changes induced by orgasm. When I told my psychologist about this, he said that this would cause me to repress emotion in general. I had indeed been suffering from blunted affect for a few months due to depression, and he'd got me worried, but I wasn't convinced yet.

After trying a few antidepressants, I started to believe that I had a lack of dopamine. When I conveyed these thoughts to my doctor, he heaped scorn upon me with the ivory-tower arrogance characteristic of many doctors. The inability to do anything about my feelings of emptiness so frustrated me that, in feelings of impotence and hopelessness, I cut myself for the first time in weeks and got drunk.

I wondered what could be wrong with me. Knowing that dopamine is involved in sexuality, I remembered what my psychologist had said, and after some consideration decided to masturbate. Due to my sexual anhedonia associated with depression, the experiment, and subsequent attempts, failed. But afterwards, I felt more empty than I ever had in my life.

That was in early August, and I've masturbated twice since then - once when withdrawing from bupropion, and once, today, when insomniac. Due to the decrease in testosterone, dopamine, and acetylcholine and the increase of serotonin and noradrenaline following orgasm, this makes me feel much, much worse. It makes me feel completely numb, as if turning me into a schizoid. It initially makes me highly suicidal and aggressive towards myself, and then makes me apathetic, detached and depressed. Hence, I've invariably cut myself every time I relapsed last year - not just out of feelings of guilt or failure, but primarily because I was now used to the heightened emotionality I experienced during abstinence, and therefore unable to cope with the emptiness following orgasm. The most painful days of my life all ensued masturbation. This numbness became so unbearable that I visualized killing myself in gruesome ways - and even drew some of these visualizations.

Seeing the effects of this emptiness on my behavior, I think I probably wouldn't have survived my depression hadn't I been sexually abstinent, and, now knowing my situation better, my psychologist agrees with that it would be better for me to remain sexually abstinent.

If you disagree with my sexual discipline, please refrain from posting: you'll almost certainly only end up doing harm. You've no idea what I've gone through because of my sexuality, so please don't be so tactless as to discourage further celibacy. Ironically, I was far more stable as long as I didn't masturbate, and the times I relapsed were an expression of self-destructivity. Yesterday evening, for instance, I kept my head under my blankets to see how long it would take for me to get out of oxygen, and the time I'd masturbated in August, I combined alcohol with benzodiazepines.

Oblomov - I'm not going to say anything about your self-induced celibacy because there is nothing inherently wrong with celibacy and it seems to be help you stay stable and not self-harm - then it is beneficial at this point.

I will ask if there might be anything else in your past or current situtation that could also be leading you to feel so horrible after sexual release? Just wondering how much of it is chemical and how much of it might be linked to psychological trauma, because similar feelings are often seen with survivors of rape or sexual abuse.

Also, can you point me to the information about adverse hormonal changes induced by orgasm... I'm really interested in reading about it and learning more because I haven't heard about this before.

plicketycat wrote:Also, can you point me to the information about adverse hormonal changes induced by orgasm... I'm really interested in reading about it and learning more because I haven't heard about this before.

The aftereffects of orgasm include:

- increase of noradrenaline (1) (2)
- increased opioids (3)
- decreased dopamine (4)
- increased serotonin (5)
- increased GABA (6)
- increase prolactin (7)
- decreased acetylcholine (8)
- decreased glutamate (9)
- decreased androgen receptors in males (9)

Another interesting site about this: http://www.reuniting.info/science/resea ... l_hangover .

Serotonin and noradrenaline decrease emotionality, glutamate and acetylcholine improve cognition, prolactin causes aggression and depression, and androgen decreases depression but causes aggression.

These effects can actually be useful if you're in a manic phase of bipolar depression, but it's not very useful if you're apathetic or depressed.

plicketycat wrote:I will ask if there might be anything else in your past or current situtation that could also be leading you to feel so horrible after sexual release? Just wondering how much of it is chemical and how much of it might be linked to psychological trauma, because similar feelings are often seen with survivors of rape or sexual abuse.

I've never been sexually abused, though I'd assume that masturbation feels much like being raped to me, afterwards.

I've always had a deep loathing for sexuality, even before the genital phase. I find it to be very similar to cocaine - even the depression and aggression afterwards are also present. It's just that we don't realize the harm it does because it lasts for so long, longer than we usually abstain.

I don't understand how it's remained possible for me to do this to myself, be it out of libido or destrudo. Since the age of 14, I've never masturbated more than once or twice every month, and my longest period of abstinence was seven months, but because the increase of prolactin upon orgasm lasts for up to two weeks, the torment it brings lasts for a painfully long time. I'd want to get rid of all lust for always - I wish this treacherous lie never existed at all. And hadn't I been encouraged to, I'd never have resorted to masturbation at all this entire year.

I feel like I'm going to explode. The last time I felt this miserable was when I was on antipsychotics.

Very interesting reading! It definitely appears that non-coital orgasm releases an imbalanced mix of hormones and neuro-chemicals... especially in males.

Since the majority of humans find sexual arousal and orgasm (both through coitus and masturbation) to be pleasant and stress-relieving and studies have shown post-coital hormonal shift to be instrumental in pair-bonding, I'm wondering if negative response to orgasm may be linked to hormonal/neurochemical imbalance or adversity in the subject... particularly in non-coital orgasm.

It would make sense that if someone already has a low dopamine level, that the drop in dopamine after orgasm would lead to feeling even less overall pleasure and satisfaction - i.e. depression and apathy. Or if that person had a sensitivity/adversity to, say, prolactin or serotonin, then the post-orgasmic rise would result in an overall feeling of illness or anxiety (consistent with allergic reaction).

Perhaps something similar may be at work with me and endorphins, as I feel generally wretched and violent after intense exercise and have never experienced the glorious "runner's high".... but perhaps I have, only I experience a negative chemical reaction to the endorphins. Perhaps this is what is happening to you with with the post-orgasmic hormone/neurochemical changes. Have you had coital sex? If so, do you have the same adverse psychological affect?

Depending on your age and blood serum levels, you may be able to convince a doctor to give you a testosterone blocker which should significantly lower your sex drive and allow you to abstain for longer periods.

Sorry if I sounded overly irritable. The morning after the masturbation, I was more hostile and unsociable than I had felt since late June. I feel better now: my weakness was humbling, and it made me aware of how weak-willed I've become. I find that sense of inferiority is a powerful motivation, somewhat like an admonition — by making me more aware of my shortcomings, it also spurred me to do something about them.

plicketycat wrote:Since the majority of humans find sexual arousal and orgasm (both through coitus and masturbation) to be pleasant and stress-relieving and studies have shown post-coital hormonal shift to be instrumental in pair-bonding, I'm wondering if negative response to orgasm may be linked to hormonal/neurochemical imbalance or adversity in the subject... particularly in non-coital orgasm.

Despite the prolactin, it may have a mood-stabilizing effect, but this is coupled to reduced emotionality (as with all mood-stabilizers). Although I can sometimes make use of short-acting anxiolytics like benzodiazepines, I generally like to retain my emotionality, be it positive or negative.

I also experience superficiality. I'm convinced this is because of the increase of endorphin, which lasts for 48 hours. It's quite disturbing.

Actually, I don't think I'd mind having intercourse with someone I'd really loved, as it causes a marked increase of oxytocin. In this way, sex may actually strengthen already strong love. Even then, I couldn't cope with lust, but I think concentrating as hard as possible on the other person and what she'd feel would virtually eliminate it: to me, lust and love are almost antipodes: lust is egocentric; love transcends one's self.

Perhaps something similar may be at work with me and endorphins, as I feel generally wretched and violent after intense exercise and have never experienced the glorious "runner's high".... but perhaps I have, only I experience a negative chemical reaction to the endorphins.

Oxytocin, despite increasing endorphin production, reduces endorphin tolerance (ie craving, lust), and what I find so counterproductive about endorphin in general is the draining withdrawal (partly because endorphin, in high levels such as those found during orgasm, increases prolactin). That's probably why you feel wretched after exercise: you must be sensitive to endorphin-induced prolactin increase.

I've never experienced this after exercise, but invariably after masturbation. Do you also experience this after orgasm?

Have you had coital sex? If so, do you have the same adverse psychological affect?

I haven't, but if I would, I'd probably be careful not to feel lust. I think I'm already half asexual in lacking romantic or sexual attractions, and for nearly the last two years I've not visualized anything erotic during masturbation.

Depending on your age and blood serum levels, you may be able to convince a doctor to give you a testosterone blocker which should significantly lower your sex drive and allow you to abstain for longer periods.

Ironically, testosterone was the original reason why I choose to abstain, as it increases mental and physical energy. Orgasm decreases testosterone receptors for 4-7 days, and even after three weeks of abstinence testosterone keeps mounting. It increases dopamine and decreases serotonin, exactly what I need. Obviously, it's rather counterproductive taking a libido suppressant if you want to sublimate libido into other forms of psychic energy.

Moreover, libido generally isn't an issue. The longest period was seven months, and the second longest four months. It's the times when my ego is lulled to sleep (by fatigue, despair, depressants or drug withdrawal). Those few times I still do it are due to momentary lapses, but short as they take, they have repercussions for nearly two weeks, and I usually feel wretched for at least two to three days. Thankfully, increased dopaminergic stimulation (due to social contact) countered that somewhat this time.

Sorry for the rant. I think I just needed a confession - it makes me more self-aware.

Rant away, it's good for the soul

oblomov wrote:Despite the prolactin, it may have a mood-stabilizing effect, but this is coupled to reduced emotionality (as with all mood-stabilizers). Although I can sometimes make use of short-acting anxiolytics like benzodiazepines, I generally like to retain my emotionality, be it positive or negative.

Oddly enough, I don't experience any reduced emotionality after orgasm. If anything, I am usually more emotional, especially if it was a partner-induced orgasm (more oxytocin maybe?). The only affect is a reduction in anxiety... but everything else still works.

Oxytocin, despite increasing endorphin production, reduces endorphin tolerance (ie craving, lust), and what I find so counterproductive about endorphin in general is the draining withdrawal (partly because endorphin, in high levels such as those found during orgasm, increases prolactin). That's probably why you feel wretched after exercise: you must be sensitive to endorphin-induced prolactin increase.

I've never experienced this after exercise, but invariably after masturbation. Do you also experience this after orgasm?

Nope, I usually feel great after orgasm - either partner-induced or self-induced. I normally feel sated and calmer, and (especially if it's partner-induced) kind of warm and fuzzy. If I go too long without an orgasm, particularly with my partner, then I start to get anxious and violent. The only negative reaction I ever have with sex is purely psychological due to abuse triggers, but those happen rarely and I normally get over it in a few hours. I could have sex and orgasms all day and never feel as completely wretched as I do after a cardio workout. In fact, I sometimes masturbate to make myself feel better when I have exercise-induced misery. But, with that said, I am a female and our hormone interactions aren't as straight-forward.

Ironically, testosterone was the original reason why I choose to abstain, as it increases mental and physical energy. Orgasm decreases testosterone receptors for 4-7 days, and even after three weeks of abstinence testosterone keeps mounting. It increases dopamine and decreases serotonin, exactly what I need. Obviously, it's rather counterproductive taking a libido suppressant if you want to sublimate libido into other forms of psychic energy.

Maybe it's a female thing again, but I normally have massive bursts of mental and physical energy after orgasm -- I do some of my most creative work at night after sex while my husband is sleeping it off.... and he is more creative and energized the next day (or if we have a morning quickie). Perhaps this is due to the additional chems released by orgasms with a partner even though prolactin is supposedly 400% more with a coital orgasm.

I've also noticed that the longer my husband goes without sex, the less sex drive he has and he'll start to become apathetic and more depressed... less able to deal with stress and less creative. But maybe that's his age (almost 40), too. His doc said that testosterone was a "use it or lose it" kind of thing... if you're not having sex or doing anything with it, your body starts producing less. I don't know if I 100% agree with that, but it does make a bit of sense... the body doesn't like being inefficient by creating unnecessary hormones, etc.

Maybe this is why your body overrides your brain sometimes and you have lapses... your levels are dropping off and the body is trying to kick start production? It's a thought. I know you have your reasons for abstainance and they seem reasonable... but since when do our bodies obey reason? Mine never has!

plicketycat wrote:Oddly enough, I don't experience any reduced emotionality after orgasm. If anything, I am usually more emotional, especially if it was a partner-induced orgasm (more oxytocin maybe?). The only affect is a reduction in anxiety... but everything else still works.

That’s not that odd, actually. Oxytocin increases dopamine, so that orgasm combined with love actually offsets the prolactin-induced decrease of dopamine, increasing emotionality - but oxytocin release in masturbation is only very transitory, lasting only a few minutes. Oxytocin would also mostly be responsible for the increase in energy and creativity. The reduction in stress and anxiety is probably because of the GABA, serotonin and endorphin.

plicketycat wrote: I've also noticed that the longer my husband goes without sex, the less sex drive he has and he'll start to become apathetic and more depressed... less able to deal with stress and less creative. But maybe that's his age (almost 40), too. His doc said that testosterone was a "use it or lose it" kind of thing... if you're not having sex or doing anything with it, your body starts producing less. I don't know if I 100% agree with that, but it does make a bit of sense... the body doesn't like being inefficient by creating unnecessary hormones, etc.

The opposite makes sense to me, and I know it from several reliable sources: the more sex you have, the less testosterone you need to motivate you to compete for sex. Testosterone is meant to make the male strong enough to “conquer” the female.

Scientific investigation revealed that even after several weeks of abstinence, testosterone was above baseline levels (1).

Also, don’t jump to conclusions - only your husband himself can know if he feels more or less energetic. Because of the endorphin, it’s possible - this is my case, as well - that one is more responsive to certain stimuli but has a lower baseline dopamine level.

I’ve noticed I smile more often after orgasm, but the things I smile at are always so frivolous that it makes me wince afterwards. It makes me direct my energy on the most superficial things, making me blind to higher values. I’m too serious for endorphin to be ego-syntonic.

I’m starting to believe that I’m not even interested in the endorphin. Last night, I experimented with melatonin as an anaphrodisiac. It’s thought to modulate sexuality in hibernating animals, I’ve read. As I didn’t feel urged to masturbate, I stimulated the genitals until I did, and then waited. (It’d take two weeks for the prolactin levels to drop back to normal anyway, so I thought it better to experiment now.) The melatonin seemed to work, as I soon felt too sleepy to feel pleasure. Bizarrely, for some reason I still continued.

I knew this was partly attributable to a need to give up, as I’d no longer need to worry about relapsing once I already had - to find confirmation for my failure as I so often do. I doubt this to be the sole cause, however.

I’ve often masturbated in the complete absence of sex drive, and I believe this is also partly because of its temporary GABAergic effect. This is why I’ve sometimes tried to use Temesta as a substitute, although this backfired because its GABAergic mechanism rekindled my sex drive.

I’ve noticed that the urge to masturbate is gone almost instantly when I hug my pillow, suggesting that my motivation is not endorphin, but oxytocin (ever heard of the “hug machine” autistics use?). Oxytocin transiently increases after masturbation, which could also be why I still feel better until a few minutes after orgasm. I have little social contact, and hence a lack of oxytocin. Even when not feeling lust at all, I do feel a longing to cuddle, without the damn endorphin polluting the experience.

Maybe this is why your body overrides your brain sometimes and you have lapses... your levels are dropping off and the body is trying to kick start production? It's a thought. I know you have your reasons for abstainance and they seem reasonable... but since when do our bodies obey reason? Mine never has!

Mine usually does. Even in dreams, I feel aversion at sex. Hence, I’ve never had wet dreams. My loathing for sex has even made me anorgasmic years ago, and mostly sexually anhedonic, too. The little pleasure I still do feel is pre-ejaculatory.

oblomov wrote:Also, don’t be deceived - only your husband himself can know if he feels more or less energetic.

True. I can only observe that he appears to be lackluster and missing his verve. Although, he has complained about feeling "blah" or depressed... but that might be from the stress that was interfering with our sex life, too.

Last night, I experimented with melatonin as an anaphrodisiac. It’s thought to modulate sexuality in hibernating animals, I’ve read.

My husband frequently initiates sexual contact when he's still at least half asleep. He's a really heavy/deep sleeper, so I wouldn't expect he has a melatonin deficiency. But there have been times when we're 75% into sex before he completely wakes up. Maybe this is just reduction of inhibition during sleep or reduction of stress during sleep?

I’ve noticed that the urge to masturbate is gone almost instantly when I hug my pillow, suggesting that my motivation is not endorphin, but oxytocin (ever heard of the “hug machine” autistics use?). Oxytocin transiently increases after masturbation, which could also be why I still feel better until a few minutes after orgasm. I have little social contact, and hence a lack of oxytocin. Even when not feeling lust at all, I do feel a longing to cuddle, without the damn endorphin polluting the experience.

I am autistic (Asperger's) and found the articles on the hug machine intriguing... but other than the compression factor (compression is like a sedative for me), the idea of hugging something inanimate didn't sound appealing. I'm not a huge physical contact person in general, but I do feel calmer when I hug or cuddle my husband and cats. Perhaps getting a pet that you can snuggle with may increase your daily oxytocin?