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Covert Incest ~

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Covert Incest ~

Postby imabeliever » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:03 pm

I am desiring to chat with victims of covert incest ~
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Postby Chucky » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:02 pm

Hi,

This is an extraordinarily specific type of problem and I'm doubtful that you will find anyone here who has suffered it. Are you a victim yourself or just looking for information for research purposes?

Take care,
Kevin
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Postby imabeliever » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:44 am

Kevin ~ My oldest daughter was a victim resulting from her father being a victim. I have a younger daughter who recently went to live with her father (I have legal custody and soon am going to court to get her back into my home, she is a teen desiring to live in a more lenient home) and am very concerned about the ramifications of her now living with her dad - she has not been with him since she was 5.

I think the stastictics of covert incest are probably higher than admited because not many people understand what it is.

There is only one book that I am aware of on this issue - SILENTLY SEDUCED.

Covert incest is an inappropraite relationship with the opposite sex parent.

For example - my oldest daughter was the "wife" in our family in every sence of the word but sexual although my ex had her in our bed right between us until my divorce when she was 13.

Thanks for responding to my post ~

Have a WONDERFUL DAY!
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Postby Chucky » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:27 pm

Hi,

Yes, you must try everything in your power to get your younger daughter back. If she is a teenager, then she is going through a very important part of her life that can shape her future As such, she needs a home where she can be raised with the 'proper' kind of love, and not a covert incest kind of love.

I must be honest in saying that I had nmo idea what covert incest was until I looked it up after seeing your post; and I do indeed imagine that it's more common than people think. I guess having the word 'incest' in it's title is a bit offputting, as people naturally assume that there is then a physical part involved.

Have a wonderful day too!

Kevin
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Re: Covert Incest ~

Postby Souther » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:08 am

imabeliever wrote:I am desiring to chat with victims of covert incest ~


If incest is sexual intercourse between 2 blood relatives, how can it take place without sex? Just seems like this is some form of thought crime here.
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Postby Butterfly Faerie » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:42 am

The description of covert incest is this (for those who do not understand it)


Covert incest, emotional incest, and psychic incest are terms used to describe situations between relatives, usually parents and children, in which there is no actual sexual contact, but rather, an inappropriate emotional relationship with sexual undertones. An example is that of a parent who interacts with his or her child in the same way as he or she would with a sexual partner, without actually engaging in sexual activity with the child.

Problems between parents often facilitate covert incest; as the parents distance themselves from each other both physically and emotionally, one parent may begin focusing on his/her child. The child becomes the surrogate partner. and the child becomes relied upon as the parent's source of emotional support. The relationship then progresses into the sexual realm. Many times the other parent is aware of the inappropriate relationship, but does nothing about it.


Common examples of covert incest
Unlike overt incest, covert incest refers to a wide range of behaviors and hence is difficult to quantify. Some common examples include:

Constant, uncomfortable attention (e.g., constant barrages of "I love my little princess").
Inappropriate questions and discussions regarding the child's emerging sexuality.
Discussions regarding the child's physical appearance in a sexual context.
Deliberate nudity in the child's presence.
Covert and/or overt viewing of the child when s/he is bathing, dressing, etc.
Leaving pornography around the house.


http://www.answers.com/topic/covert-incest
http://www.sexualhealth-addiction.com/t ... hp?pid=113
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Postby shivers » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:04 am

A friend of mine saw this type of covert incest (usually referred to as emotional incest) happening in public at a recent craft fair she organises.

In one of the booth holders, which was a lady selling her craft wares and doing demonstrations sat her husband and their teenage daughter on the husbands lap. The husband was fondling and stroking the girls back down to her buttocks and giving her quick kisses and pecks on her neck. As my friend said, nothing you could say was overtly sexual about it, but the teenage girl (about 16) was muzzling into her father's neck and as my friend said, it ws incredibly awkward and inappropriate. And it made her feel sick. She observed this for a while and noticed how the mother looked extremely uncomfortable, but it was a public case.

My friend, being the outspoken lady that she is, decided she didn't like this type of behaviour displayed at her craft fair, especially as they were near the entrance, so she asked them nicely to stop.

They did, apparently and left soon after. But my friend gave me a detailed description of how the behaviour was more like 2 young teenagers would kiss and hug in the cinemas or on the couch at home, and that to witness it between a father and daughter creeped her right out.

I'd say that was my first description of what covert incest would look like.

A child of a narcissistic parent would have been the recipient of covert incest, as the narc parent uses age inappropriate comments and expectations. Things like being sarcastic to pre-schoolers, they don't understand the sarcasm.
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Postby sonovlaurin » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:02 pm

If incest is sexual intercourse between 2 blood relatives, how can it take place without sex? Just seems like this is some form of thought crime here.


I don't think incest is restricted to sexual intercourse per se. Fellatio, inappropriate fondling, even rubbing against someone fully clothed for sexual gratification would probably constitute incest. So I'm of the mind that if the response it brings is sexual gratification, and it's a close family member, it's ok to call it incest. Or, if you prefer, 'incestuous, for any nit picky readers.

In order to be fully and only a thought crime, the thought would have to remain in the mind of the abusive parent. I am sure there are lots of parents who have such thoughts. Is it healthy? I don't think so, but as long as they're not sexually abusing someone, it's tough to make the claim it's a crime.

The idea of covert incest is demonstrated in Shivers post nicely. But after reading the descriptions here and elsewhere, I can see how diagnosing covert incest is going to be a challenge for health care professionals. It's a challenge to operationally define the behavior and probably to evaluate it's impact on the victim.

That said, the mere fact that it's difficult to quantify, or to 'nail down', so to speak doesn't necessarily negate the idea that harm has come to the child. And I think there's the rub: If it harms children in a socially relevant way, or is significantly harmful in health terms for the child, we have to ask ourselves as a society whether or not our laws should be geared towards the prevention of this kind of behavior.

And having said that, surely any healthy reader will be disgusted by the image of a father having a 16 year old daughter on his lap, kissing her neck. If you can't call that image 'incestuous', then I'd guess you're not really able to take the perspective of the victim, who, given the choice, may wish for a non family member to be treating her that way. And it doesn't take a study from Stanford University to leap to the conclusion that this kind of behavior is totally inappropriate for any child, is sick, and the parent obtuse to the developmental needs of his children, which he has sacrificed for the purpose of his own sexual needs.

I'd be interested in seeing what happens to this idea, how they'll measure victim impact, and how they'll assess it in situ.
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Postby Cortisol » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:49 pm

I think the stastictics of covert incest are probably higher than admited because not many people understand what it is.


They should change its name because it's embaressing .
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Postby random55 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:51 pm

wow look! a psych label that totally fits me and none as of yet can match up to it, mother would just be so proud of me.

no but seriously peoples, my father worked full time and my mom was a stay at home mom. starting from the age of 13 my mother started buying me cigarettes with my fathers money behind his back, she contiuned buying me cigarettes everyday tell i was smoking a pack and half aday at 16. why would she keep doing this you ask? well because, she enjoyed having me as her one and only companion and vice verusa as I did not have to go to school if i didnt want to (she would lie to my dad and tell him that I did) so long as I was at home with my mom listening to all the sad and horrible things that happended to her while she was a child and her stories in mental health lock up and how hard it was for her and how i was the most lucky boy in the world to be loved by someone such as her seeing as the entire world did not have love, none of my friends or there parents where as good as mine and her love she would say to me and brainwash me to believe this #######4,

over time, my mom unwittingly created a gap in our family where I can only describe it as my mom cheating on my dad with me. she also broke up with my dad and started dated another man who was 23 and she is 48. although she never had sex with him (of course i knew, she told me) she was emotionally close and watching her have a relationship with him and talk to him as if she talking to me made me sick to my stomach i wanted to puke when i put it all together

her instable behaviour and mental health problems (bipolar) lead me to be homeless,emotionally disturbed and confused (bipolar aswell dx) chain smoking,


lots of more inapproiate behaviour, she fits the classic description of this label, this type of abuse probaly falls under the milder categories but I still think it was enough to impact on my life.
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