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movies

Postby My2cents » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:22 pm

I watched the movie Punch Drunk Love and thought Adam Sandler's character seemed abnormal, but not like any other character I'd seen before. Would that be an example of schizotypal personality disorder?

There are a few other movies with similar characters that I wonder about.
The Minus Man (Owen Wilson)
Donnie Darko (Jake Gyllenhal)
Death Note (Detective L)

I've read a small amount on schizotypal personality disorder, but I don't understand it well enough to see how it applies to real or fictional people.

I would appreciate it if you would name some people (real or fictional) who might have it. Don't worry about whether I'm likely to have seen something; name any character from any kind of media. The only character I've heard of as an example is from The Taxi Driver, but I haven't gotten around to seeing that movie yet. I would prefer if you name a character and then give reasons why you think he/she might be schizotypal.
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Re: movies

Postby Black Widow » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:15 pm

While the guy from Taxi driver is considered by the popular culture as schizotypal, I don't think the character is believable enough to represent anybody, aside from someone having a psychotic episode.

Take pretty much any movie with a shaman, or that dwarf in Poltergeist and they usually fit the bill pretty good. A lot of known scientists were schizotypal, like Einstein, most likely. Socrates is a fictional character that comes close. Any thinker out of the box that shows little or inappropriate emotion.

I think the Batman of Tim Burton is schizotypal with psychotic episodes. Spider-man in the movies and the comics. Professor Xavier of the X-Men. The detective in Casablanca. Maybe Neo in the Matrix. Sherlock Holmes in the books.

They look like schizotypal, although they are not disordered enough to be considered as such. If they were, they would only make an appearance as an hermit that gives some indication but does not want to be involved in the plot story because of the drama. There are a lot of those in the movies.

The father of Indiana Jones is a good example that comes very close to full schizotypal. He is more interested in his research than what is happening around him, but is not entirely out of it. Just somewhat absent-minded. And he does not care about bonding with his son or people. If I would take a well-written character that represents the PD, that would be it.
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Re: movies

Postby My2cents » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:57 pm

It's hard to really understand the personality of a character in a fantasy movie because the reality they are responding to is fantasy, so I don't know how someone would normally respond to compare.

The dwarf in Poltergeist was very smug, arrogant, but other than that it's hard to judge a character who briefly appears to banish a demon. The situation is too bizarre, and the scene is too short. It's a personality disorder, so I think it takes numerous appearances or constant presence of a character to tell whether they have it. Experiencing normal things, so I can compare that person's behavior with what someone else would do in that situation.

What about Raffiki the baboon shaman in The Lion King? And any philosopher or poet known as a mystic?

I will look into Einstein. I'll read a few of his writings (a double benefit, observing his personality while learning his ideas), and maybe a biography on him. What about Isaac Newton? I heard he was into alchemy, although he is only famous for physics.

I'm not much of a mystery reader, but I saw the Sherlock Holmes movie and liked it, so I should read the books too. Thanks for that suggestion. I shall rewatch The Matrix in light of what you've said. There were only a handful of people who felt like there was more to the world that they hadn't seen, and were offered the red pill like Neo. Were all of them schizotypal? What, specifically, about Neo makes you think of him as one?

Walter Bishop from Fringe is an outside-the-box thinker who shows little or inappropriate emotion. He reminds me of Fox Mulder and The Lone Gunmen from X Files. Are they likely schizotypal? Their shows are sci-fi, a lot of impossible things happening, but there are plenty of opportunities to observe them interacting with people and see their personality.

What do you think of the characters I named in the original post? They show little or inappropriate emotion. The movies themselves have a strange feel. Most movies have a driving force from the beginning to the end of the story, while these don't seem to be going in any particular direction.
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Re: movies

Postby Black Widow » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:31 am

I did not see the movies of the original post, nor the Lion King.

Walter Bishop, definitively. Although he is so extreme I would almost tend to say he is psychotic, maybe schizophrenic. Fox Mulder, yes, I would say so.

What makes me think Neo is based on schizotypal traits is because the savior thing is usually so. The type of self-sacrificing hero is pretty much trait-like. He is a thinker and versed in the programming. He is also thinking outside the box, obviously, and has magic thinking. The power in the matrix comes from magic thinking. Being able to imagine things is more important than anything else. I only saw the first movie though, so it is based only on that. Not everybody that takes the pill is schizotypal. I don't consider the others as such. Not the black guy nor even Trinity. Maybe the Oracle, but the acting is wrong if that is the case. It has to do more about the actor, IMO than the actual character. If the actor is well cast, it creates a better picture. Otherwise, you are looking at stereotypes, which may be badly represented.

Some actors that give a schizotypal feel to their acting are Tom Cruise, Sean Connery, Christophe Lambert, Humphrey Bogart, and many others. Angelina Jolie also, Audrey Hepburn. Michael Keaton, very much so.

Sherlock Holmes is an interesting case. For the most part, he looks more schizoid, and is pretty much seen as such. He rarely goes out on a limb on intuitions. On the other hand, Moriarty, his evil brother that is only a figment of his imagination, is quite schizotypal. And in that story, where we learn about Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes is doing a paranoid psychosis. It is blamed on cocaine in the book though. My guess is that Conan Doyle was schizotypal himself. He had a lot of interest in the occult and many things. While Holmes is pretty down to Earth, the mysteries he solves are quite fantastical in many instances.

I don't know enough about the life of Isaac Newton and never read any of his work, but I would not be surprised at all if he was schizotypal. I would not take too much weight in the fantastical part of the schizotypal criteria to guess that. It is overrated, IMO. Emotional detachment, overly thinking, withdrawal, lack of trust and unconventional behavior are much more important. The people that actually believe in fantastical stuff are rarely the schizotypal. Schizotypal merely understand and create those things and they mean something by it, usually by analogy.

Take the alien/UFO thing. It is an analogy of feeling alienated from the others. The others are the aliens. While daydreaming, a schizotypal might say that he is being watched by aliens, or that he hears alien voices. It may be tongue in cheek, or it could be due to a psychosis, where it becomes a lot more real. But it means something quite real, generally speaking, but the way to convey it is idiosyncretic.
"In psychiatry, the term means a specific and unique mental condition of a patient, often accompanied by neologisms"

But those that think there are aliens somewhere on other planets that come down to make experiments and mutilate cows are some other people, most of the time. It is too realistic an interpretation to be of any mental value for a schizotypal. Conspiracy theories are not part of the trait.
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Re: movies

Postby Fairytale » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:06 pm

It seems to me Gil in Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris is quite Schizotypal from a non's perspective.
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Re: movies

Postby JohnKimble » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:39 pm

Tungsten wrote:I did not see the movies of the original post, nor the Lion King.

Walter Bishop, definitively. Although he is so extreme I would almost tend to say he is psychotic, maybe schizophrenic. Fox Mulder, yes, I would say so.

What makes me think Neo is based on schizotypal traits is because the savior thing is usually so. The type of self-sacrificing hero is pretty much trait-like. He is a thinker and versed in the programming. He is also thinking outside the box, obviously, and has magic thinking. The power in the matrix comes from magic thinking. Being able to imagine things is more important than anything else. I only saw the first movie though, so it is based only on that. Not everybody that takes the pill is schizotypal. I don't consider the others as such. Not the black guy nor even Trinity. Maybe the Oracle, but the acting is wrong if that is the case. It has to do more about the actor, IMO than the actual character. If the actor is well cast, it creates a better picture. Otherwise, you are looking at stereotypes, which may be badly represented.

Some actors that give a schizotypal feel to their acting are Tom Cruise, Sean Connery, Christophe Lambert, Humphrey Bogart, and many others. Angelina Jolie also, Audrey Hepburn. Michael Keaton, very much so.

Sherlock Holmes is an interesting case. For the most part, he looks more schizoid, and is pretty much seen as such. He rarely goes out on a limb on intuitions. On the other hand, Moriarty, his evil brother that is only a figment of his imagination, is quite schizotypal. And in that story, where we learn about Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes is doing a paranoid psychosis. It is blamed on cocaine in the book though. My guess is that Conan Doyle was schizotypal himself. He had a lot of interest in the occult and many things. While Holmes is pretty down to Earth, the mysteries he solves are quite fantastical in many instances.

I don't know enough about the life of Isaac Newton and never read any of his work, but I would not be surprised at all if he was schizotypal. I would not take too much weight in the fantastical part of the schizotypal criteria to guess that. It is overrated, IMO. Emotional detachment, overly thinking, withdrawal, lack of trust and unconventional behavior are much more important. The people that actually believe in fantastical stuff are rarely the schizotypal. Schizotypal merely understand and create those things and they mean something by it, usually by analogy.

Take the alien/UFO thing. It is an analogy of feeling alienated from the others. The others are the aliens. While daydreaming, a schizotypal might say that he is being watched by aliens, or that he hears alien voices. It may be tongue in cheek, or it could be due to a psychosis, where it becomes a lot more real. But it means something quite real, generally speaking, but the way to convey it is idiosyncretic.
"In psychiatry, the term means a specific and unique mental condition of a patient, often accompanied by neologisms"

But those that think there are aliens somewhere on other planets that come down to make experiments and mutilate cows are some other people, most of the time. It is too realistic an interpretation to be of any mental value for a schizotypal. Conspiracy theories are not part of the trait.

yea, I think alot of the diagnostic criteria is bullschit

they gotta read your post and do updates on this thing accordingly
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Re: movies

Postby Black Widow » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:08 am

JohnKimble wrote:yea, I think alot of the diagnostic criteria is bullschit

they gotta read your post and do updates on this thing accordingly

The criteria don't fit everybody equally. I was told by a psychiatrist that they were broad generalizations that were supposed to be only useful to them, and not to me. :)
In any case, that is their attitude towards it, which makes understanding the personality harder for laymen, for the simple reason that they are not meant to be understood by them.
But they have a point insofar as not wanting people to relate too much to those diagnostics. They are not real, but just tools for therapy an insurance.
It won't stop people relating and searching though, which is why I think they lack a sense of the psychology of the mass and the need to fit into a mold, however flaky.

PS. The new criteria proposed for DSM-V are a lot less goofy and less prone to prejudice.
http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... px?rid=15#
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