visualizations wrote:untreated psychosis causes damage in temporal lobe. some random spots that have to do with visual or audio processing. schizophrenics have delayed reponse to audio for example, and some exectutive function. depending on if disorganized schizophrenic some NMDA or glutamate channels could be firing erratically.
antipsychotics on the other hand do damage mostly in the stratium and frontal cortex. supposively it is just 10% of gray matter, and some white matter. this is things like motor-movement, energy, personality.
the elarged vacouls based on "duration of untreated psychosis" and "antipsychotic" scans designates that the gray matter loss is due to the inhibition of growth peptides in the brain.
what someone can do to protect from gray matter loss is a variety of neuroprotectants available. i got off the antipsychotic, and i havent really been the same. but it is nothing "big". i would say it is due to the dysregulation of neurotransmitters during the day time. i still gain more speed later on in the day than in the morning.
at first i was completely zoned out, now i am still pretty zoned out. im on vegetable and fruit diet now it keeps my calm.
i can do calculations, but there is a sort of dissociation effect. which i read for some lasts about a year. its probably less damage than lets say a 1 year alchoholic. which also makes the brain smaller.
there are positive effects or some semi-positive effects. the white matter loss makes more tightly bound neurons once dendrites grow in place. there are also more binding sites through compensation for several other neurotransmitters. in a way my brain is more "lit", but also more "depressive".
Thank you for the detailed response visualizations. It's a damn shame that patients have to rely on a psych forum to get this sort of information instead of straight from the manufacturer, however don't get me wrong, I am grateful for your knowledge.
If a person is taking 4 mg of Risperdal, how long would you recommend that person to use the stuff before any significant risk of brain damage begins? In other words, when would you say it would be best to start coming off the stuff?
the damage happens right away, then it chips away a little. it blocks brain growth (BDNF). so in order to recover you have to increase brain growth, and neuroprotect. not with something like steriods though, or eating a lot of meat. that wouldnt do anything. that is why i used anti-oxidants, and a bunch of supplements from the start. you have to keep your brain in motion, but towards the right direction.
I researched schizophrenia extensively all last summer. I read basically every neuroscience study there is on schizophrenia online, a lot of abstracts of course because a lot of them you have to pay for to see. I read several books. Looked at all the forums, and a lot of websites.
I would say that under 30, mostly around 25 it is very possible to get off the medicine, but it is a very tricky painful task.
I found out that there is a "withdrawal" phase from the antipsychotic that produces a "rebound psychosis".
First of all. It is very important to get off all dopaminergics including tobacco, caffeine, precursors, maois, etc. About 2-3 weeks before trying to get off.
To try to get off the medicine first you have to lower your symptoms while on the medicine. If they are lowered while on the medicine, then it is a sign you can get off. When your medicine is halfed or 1/3rd you can start to gain a lot more confidence to do it.
My medicine was halfed at one point by my doctor, but then I had to 1.5 instead. Starting with 2.
How you do this is lots of supplements to "alter, rebuild, smooth" over brain structure.
Some supplements that are viable while on the medication are phosphatydlserine complex (sharp-ps) formulation. The lindberg or vitamin shoppe ones are fine.
phosphatidylserine complex - 3 at night
omega 3/6/9 - 3 a day or night if temporary symptom increase
omega 3 - 2 a day or night
alpha-lipoic acid - 2 at night
vitamin b complex - 1 or 2 daily
niacinamide - 1 gram daily
aspirin or ibuprofen - whenever
light multivitamin complex - one that doesnt produce symptoms
vitamin c/e - several a day/night
alpha-gpc - 2 daily
lecithin - gram
n-acetyl-cysteine - 2 a day, possibly might produce some like discomfort.
nestle nutrition shake - protein/vitamins. the soluability of this is a lot higher than pills.
The main global dysregulation that I found that could help is schizophrenia is:
kynurenic acid (cognitive symptoms)
there is of course a lot more factors involved.
start off with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hodr2r4h_8
for cognition - if you have to go to school and have schizophrenia (helps with cognitive symptoms)
b vitamin complex
nicotine (snus) or cigerettes
piracetam - 5 grams twice a day
2 focus factor - walmart 20 bucks.
i was able to go to school on this formula around the year with very minimal disturbances at school. also maintain As or Bs except the first semester when I was on ativan/valium.
okay so. i read a bunch of studies. basically all of these help "a little". so i decided to combine them for several months. i felt myself getting better every single day after about a month. i tried a lot of things, so i also made some mistakes. (things that produced symptoms). schizophrenia is extremely sensitive.
getting off the medicine completly is the trickiest part. first try going off on the weekends untill your symptoms come back, 2-3 days in. or right away. be in a safe enviornment.
go down to half when you can. go back up. wait a week. go back to half. so your brain starts stabalizing. think in "brain cycles" cycles that I still have from when I was on the medicine. in terms of "speeding up" or "slowing down"
okay so take the jump completely. get off the medicine untill you cant take it anymore (constant semi-loud voices in head, some delusions). of course make sure that by this time the supplements did in fact make a noticable decrease in your symptoms. which means that you are "rational" most of the time with "symptoms" on the side and "episodes" of delusions.
okay. so i failed. the symptoms came back to strong. why? my brain sped up too fast, my dopamine channels of course couldnt arrange themselves that fast to get off the medicine.
go back on the medicine. then take the next weekend off again. keep taking the supplements everyday.
okay its been another month. half your dose for a day. its fine. half the half the next day. its annoying. okay go off. dont take the medicine. keep taking the comfortable supplements at night.
if the voices are still there louder than usual, but not "super loud" or super continious. then it means your in the "residual withdrawal phase". during this stage the brain is in some form really fast, and not stable. yet in other ways it is dampened from taking the medicine all that time.
so you have more voices/delusions then usual. i did this during break between summer/ fall semester. by fall semester i was still taking piracetam and a nicotine packet to go to class. (cognitive symptoms) but no caffeine. you have to analyze this aspect also. because if you are trying to get off the medicine while craving dopaminergics you're just going to feel a whole lot worse with symptoms.
in the fall. during classes i had minimal voices during class. only in private i had some. these werent continous instead the schizophrenic phenomenon was cyclic throughout the day. switching from haliperdol to risperdal helped a lot. i actually became more cyclic instead of continous on risperdal even though the sedation was worse.
okay so after you get off. like a week later or a few days later. after the "brain speed up". go on just a corner of the medicine. i was on the corner for about a month. this lowered symptoms as effectively as whole pill by that time.
first you have to let your brain "readjust" for the corner of the pill to work.
i felt really good during that time, but i felt like i might break out at any time of the day. so it was also a "turmoiled" time.
okay so dont do any drugs during this period, and you could recover completely. become residual which means that you only have some symptoms, but are mostly normal.
i made the mistake of taking mdma with methamphetamine one single night in december. i had only some "transient anomalie voices" in the shower or something during that period. i also started drinking alot which causes "neuroinflammation" which worsens schizophrenia.
my mood dropped when i got rejected to suicidal level. around november 25. i did the mdma a week before new years. i didnt know there was ampthetamines in it. then i continued drinking untill about march when i was only drinking weekly. by march 25 i quit fully this year.
around febuary i had continous voices again from the alchohol, but i continued with the supplements and my symptoms lowered again. neuroinflammation/gaba deficiency.
okay this month i have been pretty good, but not the state that i was at around late december. it takes several months for your symptoms to lower after getting off the medicine, but it is easily livable. of course unless you get extremely depressed. my psych didnt give me an antidepressant for a whole month, so i went to another psych and she said i had bipolar and couldnt prescribe antidepressant. she didnt know that the cyclic thing was because of first getting off the medicine (your mood/energy/negative symptoms could become erratic), then drinking 3-4 times a week.
so i had to get my antidepressant from another country because i of course did more research then all of them, and i was extremely certain that it would help my condition. obsession/depression. since antidepressants also curb obession.
i took the antidepressant for a week and a few days here and there, then summer came. by april im not depressed anymore, and my symptoms are transient.
still have negative symptoms though. im basically floating around in my head. i only seem to grab direction when i am walking or excerising then i feel energetic. i also quit smoking last month.
another thing that helped me quit drinking/smoking, and helped with my symptoms was the fruit/vegetable diet i did from march 20 to april 10th. i used this as a sort of detox, and i found that it helped with anxiety, depression a bit, overall wellbeing. i quit smoking before that around the start of march, but this helped lingering symptoms of addiction. through its nourishment of neurotransmitter stuff.
dont expect any single thing to help with schizophrenia recovery except those main pills though, and of course lots of time. also don't ruin it like i did. the only reason i decided to do mdma was because i was so messed up by that occurence that i used it as a way to accept my conditions. basically a kind of therapy. the first 2 weeks my symptoms were lowered (mdma), but then the following weeks my symptoms were heightened (adultered speed).
so i dont know if the crash just happened to me, but watch out for a possible crash. it was a 6 month crash, but i also enjoyed listening to music a lot.other than that. i almost recovered very light residual. made my self worse with drugs. then recovered again with this sort of formula. light residual
within a year. was on medicine last week of march last year. got off august. that was my third relapse, and "chronic" phase. the other times were 2 weeks and 2 months without medicine. so the supplements also seem to prevent relapse, but i have to wait about a year and a half to possibly recover fully or relapse. well basically i tested my limits - lots of stress, alchohol, drug and didnt relapse and actually got better pretty fast afterwards. so i could recommend.
the last comment i want to make is. if you want to recover. don't do any drugs. once you do partially recover or recover. you're done with drugs forever. drink that cup of coffee for 2 months, you'll hear a voice one day. drink alchohol for 3 months, you'll hear a voice. do some synthethic psychedelic drug, 2 months later you'll relapse. our brains are just too sensitive. even if you over do any kind of diet or food you'll mess up the equilibrium.
this partial recovery is really cool though. its like having a spiritual dimension over everything. everything that is fun like music or walking feels like a ritual. i was doing very well at social events during december, then it got bad/nervous in march. now its okay.