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Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

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Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby Postmorthim » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:24 pm

I am a male in my forties who was diagnosed with Schizophrenia recently and prescribed Risperdal.

I have been experiencing what I would describe as a variant of Cotard's Delusion for about 4 years now. I believe that I have died and gone to the afterlife of which I'm uncertain whether I am in purgatory or hell. My surroundings and interactions with people vary so much that I sometimes think that I'm in hell (people and events are tormenting me for the either the sake of just torment itself or for entertainment value of those observing) or that I'm still in a possible redemptive phase where salvation may be an option (people and events are offering me a path or unusual luck/fortune happens.) I was raised as a Catholic and became what I used to describe as a "post-Catholic agnostic upon hitting college. Since graduating I have slowly become more reflective of a deity and more of an active agnostic, looking more wholeheartedly for evidence or a creative, divine force.

I am curious if anyone has direct experience or some insightful knowledge about Cotard's delusion. I have stumbled on it on the internet after a failed suicide attempt. It was just refreshing to find that what I was thinking was actually a condition that existed. I think that I may have a variant of Cotard's. I don't think that my flesh is rotting yet I do sometimes think that I'm at an immortal death phase where I am unable to die in physical terms also I am experiencing a physical realm. This state of thinking then leads me to think about testing this theory with suicide to prove it.

When I mentioned these "thoughts" of being dead to my new psychiatrist she didn't really want to go into great depth and asked me about other symptoms that I was experiencing.

If anyone can shine a light on my experience with Cotard's, or more importantly there's, it would be greatly appreciated! I seemed to have hit a wall with my internet searches; all the information just seems to repeat itself.

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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby ImaWacko » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:00 pm

how deep into your Catholic conditioning have you explored? recently i've been working through some Catholic regurgitations, though the symbolisms are surfacing differently than what you're experiencing. it's the kind of gloriously tormenting stuff i thought i had exorcised in my 20s. i tell you what! the Catholics sure know how to set a hook.
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby Postmorthim » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:16 pm

All of these thoughts have had me reconsider leaving behind Catholicism. I recently tried going back and going to mass. It began to feel silly... like I was forcing something that wasn't real for me. All the biblical recitations using imagery that doesn't connect with me.... like some nonsensical mysticism that kept nagging at me to submit to faith alone.

So I'm kind of adrift with all these religious reminders around me everyday. Sometimes I can't take them for just the symbolism they are and mistake them for reality.

What do you think the hook was/is Ima?
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby ImaWacko » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:22 am

Postmorthim wrote:All of these thoughts have had me reconsider leaving behind Catholicism. I recently tried going back and going to mass. It began to feel silly... like I was forcing something that wasn't real for me. All the biblical recitations using imagery that doesn't connect with me.... like some nonsensical mysticism that kept nagging at me to submit to faith alone.

So I'm kind of adrift with all these religious reminders around me everyday. Sometimes I can't take them for just the symbolism they are and mistake them for reality.

What do you think the hook was/is Ima?



well, first there's the rituals. the rituals produce a hynotizing affect on the sensitive malleable mind, a child's mind. (the mass was chanted in latin when i was kid so even more hypnotic.) then you're fed hero stories and violent images of a crucified savior and tortured martyrs and you're told god wants you to end up suffering a horrific death like this these holy people. death death death everywhere and it's all gloriously bedecked in stained glass, white robes trimmed with gold, haloed angels and saints all lit with flickering candles and wreathed in the sweet smoke of frankincense. it's subliminal as well blatant. the first time i ever heard the word "passion" was in church and it was used in relation to Jesus' death agony. the relationship between sex, violence and death already being indoctrinated into the child mind. twisted. really twisted. lol UGH!

i remember precisely when the hook was set in me. it was during mass and i was kneeling there trancing out on a stain glass window above the alter. it was a depiction of the Last Supper. my focus was on Judas because he was the only one in the picture turning toward the pews, staring out at congregation. i was spacing out pretty deep so i failed to hear the nun's clicker and so failed to stand up on cue. she came up behind me and whapped in the back of the head. my head rocked forward and my mouth hit the back of the pew in front of me. i remember i was wearing little white gloves and when i put my finger to my mouth it came away bright red. "this is my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant." blood ... it's all about the blood. yuk.

the setting of the hook would, no doubt, be different for you. it might be something rather traumatizing that occurred in relationship to the religious conditioning you were receiving, something that confirmed it to be "true" and real. decades later your mind might be pushing this twisted mess of religious indoctrination and corresponding trauma to the surface so that you can figure it out, come to terms with what was done to you. they set you up for obedient victimhood. look how, in desperation, you tried to go back to them. they knew you would. the bastards.

i haven't yet been able to extract the hook entirely but at least i know it's there and where it's lodged so when my mind starts reguritating Catholic symbolism i know what is going on. can't fool me anymore.
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby Postmorthim » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:07 am

Thanks for the detailed post Ima!

It's hard for me to identify an exact experience where le hook was implanted. What I do remember is the utter disappointment upon receiving my confirmation. I was in the seventh grade of private Catholic elementary school and was told that the Holy Spirit would touch me on the day of the sacrament. I was actually excited and greatly anticipated this feat of faith. When the day came I simply received a touch to the forehead by a priest and walked away from the altar baffled to my awaiting sponsor and family. I slowly became disillusioned with my faith. Why would the religious teachers say such a thing and then the spirit didn't deliver? I felt no different walking away from that altar that day. How could the spirit passover me? What was this all about?

Well, I continued with the school and religious teaching, as well as altar boyhood. I then went on to an all male Catholic high school where I seemed to excel in religious classes with a climax in senior Philosophy of Religion. I chose upon graduation to pursue a life in theater.

Needless, to say I didn't attend mass anymore or participate in any of the sacraments.

So I had a hook there somewhere beforehand which I thought in retrospect was dislodged around confirmation.

I guess what I'm experiencing/asking for is a need that those around me try to dispute my claims of death and existence of purgatory or hell. My brother rubs it in my face by using my claims to prove that it is truly what I claim it is and my mother claims it's possible that I could be experiencing purgatory all the while everyone around goes about their pleasant days on earth.

How does a person with delusions of being dead and in a period of afterlife wrestle successfully with them and not go completely batty and be able to try to "live" a normal life?

Boy do I feel confused and just really dang tired...
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby crazymoth » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:37 am

Well, you're still calling them delusions. So that's a good step.

I also went through a similar phase after my suicide. Especially because I was resurrected. (read parts of my blog) I thought I was dead and in my afterlife. The only problem was that I still keep getting older and when I went to the dentist I had a new cavity. Do teeth get cavities in the afterlife? Probably not! Lol.

It was hard for me to beat this delusion down because I also astral project. (I can get out of my body when I sleep.) The things I see out there are very after-life-like.

The reality of the situation for me is that it's an indulgence. Nothing really happens to me that I can't really dismiss and say... "that's just a coincidence". The problem is that we want to believe these delusions for some reason. Helps makes us feel special? Maybe.

Anyway... you're not going to know for 100% what really is going on or what happened to you. You're never going to know. You're also never going to know what Life and existence is all about either. I don't think it's possible. So try and believe what's most comfortable for you. What keeps you grounded and tethered to this world the most. Believe that, and you'll be ok.

It all comes down to your beliefs. What you believe creates your reality. So make it comfortable and as less taxing for your reason as possible. And if you ask, "What am I supposed to believe?" That's entirely up to you. It's the only freedom we really have so make up your own mind.

Laters.
crazymoth's art: http://crazymoth.org/
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby ImaWacko » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:48 am

Postmorthim wrote:Thanks for the detailed post Ima!

It's hard for me to identify an exact experience where le hook was implanted. What I do remember is the utter disappointment upon receiving my confirmation. I was in the seventh grade of private Catholic elementary school and was told that the Holy Spirit would touch me on the day of the sacrament. I was actually excited and greatly anticipated this feat of faith. When the day came I simply received a touch to the forehead by a priest and walked away from the altar baffled to my awaiting sponsor and family. I slowly became disillusioned with my faith. Why would the religious teachers say such a thing and then the spirit didn't deliver? I felt no different walking away from that altar that day. How could the spirit passover me? What was this all about?

Well, I continued with the school and religious teaching, as well as altar boyhood. I then went on to an all male Catholic high school where I seemed to excel in religious classes with a climax in senior Philosophy of Religion. I chose upon graduation to pursue a life in theater.

Needless, to say I didn't attend mass anymore or participate in any of the sacraments.

So I had a hook there somewhere beforehand which I thought in retrospect was dislodged around confirmation.

I guess what I'm experiencing/asking for is a need that those around me try to dispute my claims of death and existence of purgatory or hell. My brother rubs it in my face by using my claims to prove that it is truly what I claim it is and my mother claims it's possible that I could be experiencing purgatory all the while everyone around goes about their pleasant days on earth.

How does a person with delusions of being dead and in a period of afterlife wrestle successfully with them and not go completely batty and be able to try to "live" a normal life?

Boy do I feel confused and just really dang tired...



hmmm okay. i'll tell you what jumps out at me from your post.

you felt the Holy Spirit passed you over. deep disappointment, a faith shaker. then despite an extensive religious education you dismissed the church. now you're having delusions that you're dead already and in purgatory.

so here's my theory. i'm not a shrink. i'm just a fellow recovering Catholic so ... you know ... take it for what it's worth.

the basic Catholic hook is to create you to be a "servant of God" ... by which they mean "servant of the church". this you have FAILED to become and now perhaps somewhere deeply buried in your subconscious the hook is festering guilt (as it is designed to do).

now understand this has nothing to do with any actuality. it doesn't matter how intelligently you've worked to extricate yourself from the religious conditioning of your childhood. the hook is lodged in your child mind where logic fades and imagination reigns supreme. it's your frightened to death inner child that's producing these delusions. the poor thing is living a nightmare. that poor kid thinks he deserves to be punished in purgatory because he failed to become what the church conditioned him to become.

of course the adult you, the logical adult, knows this is male bovine feces but that little boy is still wondering why the Holy Spirit passed him by, maybe he isn't worthy, maybe he deserves living death.
you can't blame the poor kid. i mean, by the time you're 6 yrs old the Catholics have you counting up your sins ("bless me father for I have sinned") and hell and torture are made graphically realistic. what does a child understand of metaphor? he is literal minded and still believes in magic, the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. in the realm of imagination anything is possible ... even damnation. this is why they hook em young before the intellect can kick in to dispute the lies with logic.
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby Rattatat » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:56 am

Just curious. Do you agree with the doctors diagnosis of schizophrenia and how do you approach this situation with such a strong religious background that may have led to the diagnosis?
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby ocular_razor » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:03 am

bear with me here but this involves a lot of ground to cover.

what the catholic church has become is paganism. what you've been witness to is taint. if you get a chance you should learn about the middle ages and the european churches. different established sects came about through it and after it...calvinism, lutheran which involved many of the wars (control of territory to enforce the religion, etc..which many people 'exodus'ed to america eventually). and then when people got away from 'the church' pentacostal, baptist, full-gospel churches came about which altogether are a 'progression', accentuating certain aspects which are all equally important. it's when the church revival happened, when it actually became a church again and not a blood-thirsty government.

but you can see the pitfalls of paganism. and the emptiness of it. instead of praying to god the catholics are told to pray to mary. rosary beads (aka idols) are told to hold special powers. they still have jesus nailed to the cross when it is written that he rose again to heaven. holding a crucifix, a man-made object is told to hold special supernatural powers. messages are not taught they are recited in the language that is the basis of all modern languages, but is an archaic one that most do not understand.

one of the things that happened in the middle ages was borders constantly being written. and bloodlines and families becoming alienated from one another. the germans wanted to unify though. and 'the church' at the time, since their reign contained much of these patch-worked germans they changed their title. they were an empire already but became of the german empire, the reich. eventually it went into hiatus when england lost their colonies and france went through their multiple revolutions. but after a few hundred years the germans had a chance to unify and they went through more wars establishing territory. the second reich came about not because 'the church' re-established itself but because it became about building a nation again to rule from. but you remember wwi and the third reich that came out of it which hussein was fond of but people forget that.

but ya gotta remember the indebtedness the church binds the world to to fund their treasury. after the turmoil of the middle ages, the napoleonic wars, the fall of the ottoman empire and the fall of the axis powers, it was able to settle down again and start rebuilding its treasury. mind you the u.s. constitution binds us to our war-debt and england at the time was the arch-treasurer of the holy roman empire. when they have them countless g20 summits, the imf and wto deciding which countries to collapse and which to prop up its always about building up the treasury. it always has been. wars are about resources and control of resources. they are seldom about utilizing the environment they are mostly about controlling the people to extort them for money.

paganism is an ideal tool to achieve this. especially when it is spoken in a language almost no one understands but the church elite. when it is not the truth that is spread throughout the land only fear it is a red flag. the sword that draws blood has been put down for a time but one has been picked up to strike down the mind.

i cannot overstress how important it is to study the scriptures. 'the church' canonized the bible but they later decided to add things about purgatory. a brutaltactic of war is infiltration and collapsing from within and i personally think that's what happened during that time.

the catholics plant a good seed but they water it with vinegar and oil. their leadership has taken a good thing and turned it rotten in the pursuit of their treasury. 'the church' oversees the nations and we are to pay tribute to them regardless of views beliefs and idealogies. they might not be able to get everyone to kneel in their pews but the fear that is spread to ensure compliance is blatantly rampant.

instead of allowing your seed absorb and process vinegar you should rinse it off and let it fill up with the water of life. 'the church' is an instrument being held by wicked hands. you can accuse me of being judgemental and we can discuss the semantics of 'judgemental' if you want but i think history and the present can speak for itself on the church's tactics used to fill up their treasury.
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Re: Newly Diagnosed; Questions about Cotard's Delusion

Postby ocular_razor » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:03 am

i want to comment again on purgatory. but a huge implication of what purgatory brings up is that god, where it is written many times that he is just, full of justice, completely balanced in being just in exercising just judgement, somehow 'fails' in his judgement and thereby sends a soul into limbo.

do you fully realize these implications? a just god not fulfilling, believing, carrying out his own judgements?

it throws the mind into confusion. intentionally. it is no accident. there are scriptures where the context implies god 'reconsidered', but those involve the actions of the flesh, not the existence and state of the spirit.

no wonder people don't believe the bible! where it is written that all will stand before god for judgement and make an account, what the catholics added later 'well, some people will make two accounts' or 'god doesn't understand his own judgement so he judges against someone once, at the final judgement, and this someone gets a special ticket that changes the meaning of the word 'final', the word 'last' and if he's 'good enough' (never mind that it is written there is none good, no not one. and that salvation is not by works so that no man may boast) he can pass his second final judgement'.

no wonder! members of the catholic church are told to doubt god's judgement? to pray to people instead of god? instead of asking for forgiveness, spitting out a recital a certain amount of times brings forgiveness instead of god's mercy?

it ain't no wonder the confusion and the fatigue! ya ever hear 'wolves in sheep's clothing'? they're leaving a bunch of orphaned children throughout the world. and then the orphans are denounced for 'not having enough faith'. but that faith is told to be put in the wrong thing in the first place. the strength to hold faith is dwindled exponentially because of the secrecy about it all.

it doesn't have to be a secret. what it takes is sorting out. if you want to learn how the leadership is misapplying what they've been anointed to carry out properly then it takes sorting out. i can't force ya to read anything and in the first place you should only do so if you want to. in revelations in the letter to the church of laodicea they are referred to as the 'lukewarm' church. where they are told that they ought to choose to be hot or cold, but since they are lukewarm they will be spit out. it's not about 'going through the motions'.

no no no don't just go through the motions. it's not a 'paycheck', gettin paid to put time on the clock. what it comes down to is gaining understanding. if it's not the scriptures then let it be something else. a way to gain bearing from the disorientation all around us. there's a time and a place for everything, that 'thing' wouldn't be there without a time and a place. sometimes we need to be hungry to know why we need food.
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