A question... re relationships..

So I have been floating an idea on the Avoidant board that doesn't seem to go down too well. Basically it seems that avoidants still believe in true love and that they will have it. Or they want it. I suppose I am just a realist but... I have largely given that dream up and I honestly feel, that "love" as popular media portrays it, is a pipe dream. Notice rom coms always end after the two get together? Yeh cause that is when all the hard stuff happens.

Society demands of you, however, that someone is your significant other otherwise you are not worthy. Even if you think you are fine... you kind of need to have someone. Gay marriages are ok now and are regular ones.. but, the key point here is... one other person. If one other person wants you... you are ok in societys eyes. IMHO it is becoming increasingly hard. Want an invasive medical test.. they won't let you leave without someone getting you. Want certain rights.. you have to have one other person. Want to go to the x-mas party... you really can't go stag not when everyone else's husbands / girlfriends are coming. Housing sometimes in my area is out of reach for one person... because most people have two incomes to qualify.

So to me, it seem perfectly acceptable... no brilliant, to beat society at their own game and propose a place where people can meet and agree to be "faux" relations. Basically the idea is that you go your way.. I go mine.. but you meet the obligations of that role.

(1) I suspect a lot of couples are already doing this. Either both are aware or they just kind of lie to themselves so they can have what they want. ... a wedding... mom see them get married... someone to go to x-mas parties with. I know people that didn't get divorced just because of this and were willing to have the husband cheat openly.

(2) I suspect it goes on a LOT in Hollywood. There is a show on the CW that I watch that the entire purpose is to take real life Hollywood things that no one knows about and put it in the show. Last week, an older actress contracted with a young hot one to have him be her faux boyfriend. Together they would both help each other out. Um.. say like Demi and Ashton?

(3) I remember it being a main plot point in the movie Murials Wedding. The movie was so honest it shocked me. Murial is just a loser until she answers an ad in a paper to marry some Olympic hero so he could get on her countrys team. Even thought they hated each other... both were better off. Society is so hypocritical... as long as you get married.. to have someone else or whatever... they will leave you alone.

Basically, I want like a boyfriend store. Someone's photo I can put on the desk, someone who I can refer to at parties, someone who goes to the work x-mas party, someone who will take care of me after surgery ... and vice versa of course... but largely we live alone and are free to pursue whatever we wish in the non basic hours. Or... whatever you all agree to. I think sometimes things have gotten so messed up ... on the idea of love and emotion that we deny ourselves someone to just make things a little easier because we aren't "in love".

I did some research on this.. and while no one has come right our and done anything... there are tons of websites on relationship contracts. I mean... I think that is kind of a hint this kind of thing is going on.

Whatcha think? Be kind.

SaraShaw wrote:Whatcha think? Be kind.

I don't think i care. And i can be good at pretending, i have convinced people that i have "significant other" before. I did it, because it was fun.

That part where you need someone to pick you up. I will always have someone as a friend for such reasons. But i don't need more then 1 or 2.

Greatem wrote:That part where you need someone to pick you up. I will always have someone as a friend for such reasons. But i don't need more then 1 or 2.

And you would ask a friend to do that? I would be mortified because it would be all ... "oh poor Sara she has no one else to get her."

I ask my parents for help in those matters. They always say on tv and movies that when robots learn to love and develop emotions, they'll take over the world. Let's see about that

Which society are you talking about? I'm going to assume you mean the US, since it seems most people here are in the US.

SaraShaw wrote:Want an invasive medical test.. they won't let you leave without someone getting you.

Invasive medical procedures often involve anaesthetics, and it's a really bad idea to drive when you're coming off something like midazolam. Just hire a taxi.

Want certain rights.. you have to have one other person.

Such as?

Want to go to the x-mas party... you really can't go stag not when everyone else's husbands / girlfriends are coming.

Why would a schizoid ever want to go to a Christmas party?

Anyway, my personal experience is that most people in the midwestern states are pretty accepting of different lifetstyles, and those who aren't are usually assholes (which you'll find everywhere). You'll probably get pegged as weird if people discover you've never been in a relationship, but even strong extroverts recognize the value of solitary lifestyles (e.g. the stereotypical scientist/artist) to society, unless they're an idiot. Besides, you can do what I do and politely refuse to talk about your personal life, and most people will leave you alone. Then again, almost all of the people I interact with on a daily basis are well-educated and respectful, so my experience probably isn't an accurate reflection of the US as a whole.

Was composing a longer answer but I got to a point where all I could think of was "dafuq?" so I'll try and just query on the parts that caused the most errors in my thought processes.

SaraShaw wrote:Basically, I want like a boyfriend store. Someone's photo I can put on the desk, someone who I can refer to at parties, someone who goes to the work x-mas party, someone who will take care of me after surgery ... and vice versa of course... but largely we live alone and are free to pursue whatever we wish in the non basic hours. Or... whatever you all agree to. I think sometimes things have gotten so messed up ... on the idea of love and emotion that we deny ourselves someone to just make things a little easier because we aren't "in love".

Parties? Who the hell would ever need to see some photo on my desk to be assured that I'm in a relationship? Parents? Friends? No, I can be honest with them if need be and it's hardly cruelty on my part if they'd have an issue with me living the way I prefer.
People "caring" for me is stifling and I'd rather have only the regular checkups and whatever professionals it takes for rehabilitation after this hypothetical surgery.

While there may be some pressure from various sources to get the "benefits" of being in a relationship, there's a whole boom of awareness on the growing number of people who prefer being on the "open market" or just happen to be loners. That awareness isn't going to split the rent, but neither is a faux relationship without actually finding someone you're comfortable living with, which kind of beats the point, or did I miss something? Friends with benefits of the non-sexual sort?

And you would ask a friend to do that? I would be mortified because it would be all ... "oh poor Sara she has no one else to get her."

Social pressure and adherence to norms means absolutely squat to me, so if my friends are able and willing, then what the hell is it to anyone whom I choose and whom chooses to be there for me for whatever the dramatic scenario you might've imagined in this case.

Uhh, no idea if that could be considered unkind or rude or just simply blunt, but again dafuq?

Dorito... whatever it is you're building in that basement lair of yours, make sure it can climb stairs, recharge, repair itself and others like it and is generally able to overcome any hurdles a robot could face. No kill switches or weak spots. Also, don't make them susceptible to logic and being reasoned out of their rampage.

SaraShaw wrote:Basically, I want like a boyfriend store. Someone's photo I can put on the desk, someone who I can refer to at parties, someone who goes to the work x-mas party, someone who will take care of me after surgery ... and vice versa of course... but largely we live alone and are free to pursue whatever we wish in the non basic hours. Or... whatever you all agree to. I think sometimes things have gotten so messed up ... on the idea of love and emotion that we deny ourselves someone to just make things a little easier because we aren't "in love".

The problem you will run into in this type of imagined situation is that there is no glue to hold this relationship together for any length of time. Like Miyuki said, this is a kind of non-sexual friends with benefits idea which for most people simply means "no benefits". Not many people are going to go for that, unless money is going to be exchanged.

Though it is always tempting to blame Hollywood and pop culture, I think the silly romantic ideals that people hold run a lot deeper than you may be giving them credit for. I found it interesting that you yourself wrote that you have "largely" given up the idea of true romance. Not "completely", but "largely". So what happens when you're in one of these platonic relationships with Mr. Convenient and Mr. Right comes along? You're going to drop Mr. Convenient like a hot potato. And he already knows it, which is why he would never cosign on a long-term lease or mortgage or make any plans with you beyond next week. He knows he'll do the same if Ms. Right comes along for him. Because people never completely give up that romantic dream; they hold on to the tiniest sliver of hope.

Now, possibly this doesn't apply to schizoids who would likely be the type of people most agreeable to the sort of legalistic relationship arrangement you propose. There are practical problems here, too: schizoids will never give you a picture of themselves to put on your desk, and if you do manage to drag us to your office Christmas party we'll just sit there, not talk to anyone, and end up embarrassing you in front of your coworkers to a greater extent than if you'd just gone alone.

.

WichitaLineman wrote:*snip*

Now, possibly this doesn't apply to schizoids who would likely be the type of people most agreeable to the sort of legalistic relationship arrangement you propose. There are practical problems here, too: schizoids will never give you a picture of themselves to put on your desk, and if you do manage to drag us to your office Christmas party we'll just sit there, not talk to anyone, and end up embarrassing you in front of your coworkers to a greater extent than if you'd just gone alone.

That induced a chuckleworthy mental image. I for one can't stand having my picture taken or being displayed as some sort of a memento and even less so, as a trophy of sorts for the achievement of having formed a relationship. For social gatherings, one might want to have someone charismatic who would portray both of you in a positive light. A quiet schizoid prone to walking off when the pressure gets the better of him wouldn't be it.

It's not as much that "romantic love" itself would be a pipe-dream, but people are so detached from reality when it comes to these things as the image perpetuated by TV and movies is just as badly skewed as the understanding of the human body, mind and sexuality is in some places. Often the parents' willing ignorance is perpetuated due to either holding taboos or in fear of kids ending up as prostitutes or something if they're educated about the realities and responsibilities of being a human being capable of reproduction.

Any relationship that is based solely on the emotions stacked upon an idealized imaginary facsimile of the significant other could collapse the moment you realize that this person is "no longer the one you fell in love with" or that you never knew them well enough to begin with. This is the kind of lust and passion that is quite real and has been hijacked and portrayed as "love" in the media with just the right mix of romance to make it sell without going past the point of "girl gets the guy of her dreams."

It is important to recognize it for what it is from an evolutionary standpoint; a means to get to two (or more) people together, literally, until their private parts are sore. To realize and hopefully understand this may be disappointing, but might prevent quite the few regrettable choices, since it's likely that no other person you ever get to be or fornicate with could ever replicate or live up to that ecstatic once in a lifetime emotional roller coaster ride.

I'd go as far as saying that a relationship built on "love" romantic or otherwise is not the be all and end all. Understanding this, from my observations, is the very basis of a stable relationship capable of persisting even under the pressure of the mundane, the daily routines and stress. One that is built upon mutual understanding, trust and acceptance of the other person the way they are (within healthy limits.)

But who am I to say any of this... For all I know I could be talking out of my ass due to misunderstanding and thus misrepresenting these things.

SaraShaw wrote:I honestly feel, that "love" as popular media portrays it, is a pipe dream. Notice rom coms always end after the two get together? Yeh cause that is when all the hard stuff happens.

Yes, it would boring to watch a show about two people arguing over who does the washing-up. But the argument isn't the whole relationship any more than the initial phase is. "Love" is what makes it worth trying to stick with.

It seems like perhaps you need some gay acquaintances, Sara. You can be their "beard" at family events, and they can return the favour for you at work dos. As for "oh poor Sara she has no one else to get her", that's not true for me or anyone I know, because there are so many other factors in play. I've gone with people for hospital and dentist appointments, where their partner was working or looking after the kids. But they could have a phobia, an appointment on the same day, or any number of other reasons for not going. Or, given we're a similar age, we could be going through a horrible divorce. I hesitate to say you're wrong, because I can't possibly know your situation, but certainly in the UK, there's a strong "Friends" culture and you don't have to HAVE strong friends to fit into that patten. Here it's not at all lame or sad to ask a non-partner to help with something. So I would question whether it's fact or assumption. And also why you'd care what people that stupid think.