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Do you live in the past, present, or future?

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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby ElephantEyes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:53 am

zeno wrote:
ElephantEyes wrote:Well once some external oppressive force stops exerting its force, a person can relax and begin to get a glimmer of insight into what they really need.

Need is always relative though. What's needed for personal well-being isn't always the same as what's needed for the continuation of the species. Our genes generally guide us towards the latter.


The continuation of the species requires most people to be self-serving, and only a few to be self-sacrificing altruists.

So I'd argue our genes generally guide us towards the former.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby zeno » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:57 am

ElephantEyes wrote:The continuation of the species requires most people to be self-serving, and only a few to be self-sacrificing altruists.

I'm not sure whether that's true, but even assuming it is, "self-serving" doesn't equate to "well-being". Or else Cluster B personality disorders wouldn't be disorders.

So I'd argue our genes generally guide us towards the former.

Only indirectly, and not necessarily.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby iabsurdlyexist » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:02 am

I don't live in the past, what is done is done. I have already mapped my future. Presently on disability trying out what I assume my future life will be like but I don't really feel any different. It may be because I know it's temporary or it really just doesn't matter.

I told my therapist I am trying to balance my life. I envision a scale in my mind. However, I don't have positives to add to the scale, I can only attempt to remove negatives. Supposedly I need to re-frame things differently so saying I get to work 9-5 will make me feel better than having to work 9-5.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby ElephantEyes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:03 am

zeno wrote:
ElephantEyes wrote:The continuation of the species requires most people to be self-serving, and only a few to be self-sacrificing altruists.

I'm not sure whether that's true, but even assuming it is, "self-serving" doesn't equate to "well-being". Or else Cluster B personality disorders wouldn't be disorders.


Cluster B is "erratic and dramatic." So these are people who cause chaos wherever they go. They elicit emotional reactions, drama, theatrics. Its not the same as "self-serving."

Self-serving just means people who are willing to put their own needs as a priority. This is how the majority of people operate. Most mothers will feed their own child before someone else's child. This doesn't make them disordered. It makes them a responsible parent. If she has extra food and is generous, she will probably take in the hungry child. But, if she neglects her own child for the sake of the other child, she will be seen as negligent. Because, her own offspring is her primary responsibility, and that is what comes first. This is what keeps order within society.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby zeno » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:15 am

ElephantEyes wrote:Self-serving just means people who are willing to put their own needs as a priority. This is how the majority of people operate. Most mothers will feed their own child before someone else's child. This doesn't make them disordered. It makes them a responsible parent. If she has extra food and is generous, she will probably take in the hungry child. But, if she neglects her own child for the sake of the other child, she will be seen as negligent. Because, her own offspring is her primary responsibility, and that is what comes first. This is what keeps order within society.

In that paragraph alone you touched on several different types of need. Like I said, different things entail different (often competing) needs -- your body, your "conscience", the reproduction of your genes, society, and so on. And I think it makes very little sense to say that feeding your child is "self-serving", unless you really consider the child as part of your own "self" (which would be a mental disorder). So that's really a case in point. If you "follow your genes", you'll seek a partner, have sex, have children and endure sleepless nights and so on. It's good for the maintenance of the species, but not necessarily good for you individually.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby ElephantEyes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:28 am

zeno wrote:
ElephantEyes wrote:Self-serving just means people who are willing to put their own needs as a priority. This is how the majority of people operate. Most mothers will feed their own child before someone else's child. This doesn't make them disordered. It makes them a responsible parent. If she has extra food and is generous, she will probably take in the hungry child. But, if she neglects her own child for the sake of the other child, she will be seen as negligent. Because, her own offspring is her primary responsibility, and that is what comes first. This is what keeps order within society.

In that paragraph alone you touched on several different types of need. Like I said, different things entail different (often competing) needs -- your body, your "conscience", the reproduction of your genes, society, and so on. And I think it makes very little sense to say that feeding your child is "self-serving", unless you really consider the child as part of your own "self" (which would be a mental disorder). So that's really a case in point. If you "follow your genes", you'll seek a partner, have sex, have children and endure sleepless nights and so on. It's good for the maintenance of the species, but not necessarily good for you individually.


Need is always relative though. What's needed for personal well-being isn't always the same as what's needed for the continuation of the species. Our genes generally guide us towards the latter.


We were talking about the continuation of species. Feeding one's own child does that. As opposed to neglecting one's own child for another's. So in that sense feeding one's own child over someone else's child, results in helping your own genes survive. So its self-serving. And, it results in the continuation of the species.

Though its true not everyone's genes are wired to motivate them to seek an appropriate partner to make the ideal situation to raise children in and pass along their genes in the healthiest and most efficient way. Such people are disordered. Hence, psychology. They may be "following their genes" but these are disordered genes, which have somehow survived natural selection, but are not adaptable in an efficient way.

Too much Cluster B is not adaptable, neither is too much Cluster A.

The maintenance of the species requires very flexible and resilient people who can endure lots of stress and ultimately make sure their own children survive and procreate. Altruism doesn't have much role in that process.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby zeno » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:33 am

All the things you're saying sound to me like arguments for the exact opposite of what you're saying, so I don't really know what you're talking about.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby ElephantEyes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:42 am

zeno wrote:All the things you're saying sound to me like arguments for the exact opposite of what you're saying, so I don't really know what you're talking about.


Oh.

Its a bit like stepping into Wonderland. :)

Are you Cluster B?
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby zeno » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:48 am

ElephantEyes wrote:Are you Cluster B?

No. Cluster A.
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Re: Do you live in the past, present, or future?

Postby ElephantEyes » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:51 am

zeno wrote:
ElephantEyes wrote:Are you Cluster B?

No. Cluster A.


Noted. Either way its like a took a few tabs of acid.
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