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Male HPD Question: The Actor

Open Discussions about Relationship Issues.

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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby xdude » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:40 pm

Hey Monstergirl,

Well if he is reading, metaphorical hugs to him too. It's a painful disorder for those who live it. I want to give one more, not entirely perfect, analogy -

It's quite a shock for someone who is feeling run down, having much real pain, to learn they have cancer (and similarly to learn they have HPD). Logical explanations of whats going on may help to a degree, but still the pain remains and is real.

Point being, what is really behind it doesn't just go away by understanding it.

If I could say one thing to your BF, it is this - it's going to hurt to face the self-esteem damage. It won't feel good, and there will be no immediate relief, but...

Facing it is also the only way to get over living in fear of our own shadow.

Wishing well for both of you.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby Monstergirl » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:17 pm

Awww. Thank you! His self esteem has improved greatly already, in a short period of time, too. You can ever see it in the way he stands, and, he's very happy.

It'll be a long journey, parts of which will be painful to face, but, he'll get it. He's determined, and one thing I know about him is this: when he finally commits to something he feels is improtant, he sticks to it.

Thanks again! :D
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby mark1958 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:41 pm

Hi Monstergirl,

Just a thought for you. As he continues on this journey he may be prone to periodic insights or flashes of recognizing himself. He may begin to see some of the more harmful things that have happened to him either through his own actions or via others.

Now underneath some of that realization might be some unresolved "shame." Shame is a very challenging emotion to deal with and can cause him to react in very unusual ways. If you have ever experienced feelings of shame, it is a probably the most toxic of all feelings and he may want to avoid those uncomfortable feelings. Shame can also cause a loss in functioning.

As my colleague xdude suggests, seeing those things may not be easy. So he might be prone to want to stop going through this exercise.

Some very good experts in the filed of therapy for HPD have suggested that the challenge is to keep them in therapy long enough to look at the harder issues. Many present for cases to alleviate some type of discomfort, such as relationship or career crisis, anxiety or depression. And once starting to feel better, often stop going to therapy. So, I think expecting some hard times is appropriate.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby Monstergirl » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:27 pm

You bring up a very salient point. Shame. When we first met, he prided himself on not having any "shame." This was before his diagnosis, before self- realization.

I asked recently how he feels looking back. Remember, he did all of the sexual online things. His answer is, he feels shame, shock and revulsion. That he can't believe he did "that" to himself, or to me. He has a great deal of shame and I suspect he always has (just tried to hide it). Perhaps he brought it up to his therapist already but I didn't ask yet. He says he knows the whys (loneliness, depression, and extreme need for love/attention/acceptance etc) but is confused by his lack of self-awareness. Guess that goes along with the HPD.

Right now they are going through his traumatic past of being bullied/beaten up/used a lot.

But here's what I don't understand. He was bullied so bad his whole life by males. Beaten up all through school, humiliated, punched, kicked, bloodied and tormented. Why on Earth would he then sexualize men and have gay rape fantasies online with them? He does not recall being sexually abused by another male, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Could have been blocked out. Add in his "appeasing" nature and a needy child starved for attention. You see where I am going.

So why then submit to that abusive power as an adult and try to be "sexy" for them/ get "raped" forced etc.

Now it could be a subconscious desire to have same sex without the "shame", or a form of controlling a bad situation (that's what he eluded to) but it was originally "whoever gave him attention." This is where I get lost, and a little frightened. Obviously. He states he is not gay or bisexual soo....

Does anyone know the psychology behind this? Does this occur a lot with HPD or victims of physical and psychological abuse? I really need some direction on this.

He will be asking his therapist next session but this is the area I need help in comprehending and I just don't feel comfortable asking him too many questions about it because I don't want him to feel more shame.

Thanks
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby Monstergirl » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 pm

One thing in regard to my question above! I know HPD causes people to seek attention, and sometimes go to extremes. What he did was very extreme and it was absolutely for attention.


But my question goes further, and I may be asking something that has no definitive answer. Why sexualize your abusers and be submissive to "rape" if all you ever experienced was abuse at the hands of males. Complex question, I know.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby xdude » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:51 pm

Hi Monstergirl,

Tough question. Many others here have written about their own angst when their HPD (presumed or diagnosed) partner puts themselves (and the relationship) at risk, making choices that most NON's perceive as naive at best, worst case, intentional, for sexual attention.

From what you've described, your partner does not seem to have the 'Don't control me' mindset that some with HPD do, nor does he seem to have to have 'I just want to see how you'll react (aka jealousy games)' mindset. Rather implies he didn't do so just to show you he can, or to test you, but sometimes that's a motivator, at least in part.

He might have a personality that is easily influenced by authoritarian figures.

He might also not perceive 'being a victim' of other's sexual desires as being entirely negative. Some adults have fantasies that fall into the BDSM category, and though they probably don't really want to be in a position where they really are hurt beyond their control, but there is no denying that some adults have and/or engage in these fantasies.

Hard to know though, because people with HPD are inclined to adopt other's identities, and like all of us, they are getting something out of doing so, even if they don't know why, or want to know why.

Ultimately all you can do is figure out what you can live with.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby mark1958 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:24 pm

Hey Monstergirl,

The questions you ask here can be very complex , get very deep, and go in various directions. I do have some ideas here, but they are just my own thinking. It would be unfair of me to definitively say what were his motivations. That would be a bit invalidating of his own inner experience. So I want to be careful in that regard.

But I will offer this. Some theorists believe that HPD forms due to a conflict between same sex child and parent. The conflict is the strong desire by the child to be loved, appreciated, validated and accepted (for who they really are) by the same sex parent. What can occur, or is perceived to occur, is that the same sex parent rejects or emotionally harms the child. This rejection causes a developmental split of the self into a two part system if you will. The real self or core self which suffers the rejection/self-esteem injury and something that takes the place of the core self, a personality shift or change or disorder.

Now that is a bit complex. But the essence is this. HPD people gravitate towards the opposite sex for attention because it works. But there is still the deep, unresolved conflict between same sex parent and child, even as an adult. Some theorists believe that as an adult, the HPD man will seek out women, but want to resolve that lack of love from a perceived harmful father.

In your story, your man may (I want to say this is just my own thought) want to try to correct that experience via the sexual angle. He allowed himself to be bullied as a child because perhaps he was taught that by a significant other, that he did not measure up, etc. So he recreated that experience. The sexual fantasies with men can translate into a hoped for remedy to reconnect him with a father figure. By his submissiveness, he hopes for the love he never received.

Now, please do not take this at face value. His therapist is the one to help. I am merely giving you a synopsis of much of what I have studied on this issue.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby xdude » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:53 pm

One other thought to add here, and it's something I cannot prove, just based on my own experiences -

I think one of the keys that separates a PD from a more typical traumatic experience, is that people with PD's have multiple intertwined beliefs that reinforce each other. So when looking for the 'cause', there is often no simple cause. It's also why it's so difficult for someone with a PD to break the pattern, because the patterns are deeply entrenched for multiple reasons, and simply looking at one belief doesn't change the others.

Still, it's a good insight to perceive shame avoidance is a factor. It might just be one of many factors though.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby mark1958 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:02 pm

xdude wrote: think one of the keys that separates a PD from a more typical traumatic experience, is that people with PD's have multiple intertwined beliefs that reinforce each other. So when looking for the 'cause', there is often no simple cause. It's also why it's so difficult for someone with a PD to break the pattern, because the patterns are deeply entrenched for multiple reasons, and simply looking at one belief doesn't change the others.


Very much agree. You posted some thoughts from Maslow in the HPD forum that got me thinking. He describes actualizing the "self." But often times, the self is a very tough thing to describe. For someone who has a PD, what is the self? And questions surrounding identity, wants, desires, needs etc. Difficult to actualize what one can not be certain, really is.

Goes to the question, why did this happen? In my own personal experience, the person I was with had a very difficult time articulating the why's behind things. She had a very fragmented sense of her very own self, and what she wanted. She would often tell me, "I do not know what I want." And her behavior, was often as much as a mystery to her, as it was to me.
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Re: Male HPD Question: The Actor

Postby xdude » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Same experience Mark. It was frustrating. For those who are inclined to be introspective, we still may find no clear answer, but it is frustrating to carry on a relationship with someone who stopped at "I don't know, and don't even want to know" why I do what I do, who am I?

Without that, it is all too easy to chase wants of the moment, and that does have negative effect on relationships. It's hard enough at times to accept someone else as is, but when that what is, is ever changing, it's exhausting to keep up, and worse too, when a loved one is in, or out, based on the whim of the moment, who is being idealized in the moment, it's heart breaking to be on the receiving end of 'I forgot about you, I don't care, I'm busy pursuing x, y, z new attention'

I don't think there is anything to feel bad about though. There is no world in which someone who flip-flops personalities, and beliefs, could love someone else who does the same. There is a reason why they choose the stable head/heart minded partners.

This is also difficult to accept, but facing that there are inequitable beliefs/rules at play is essential to re-establishing sanity.
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