Impossible for ugly men to be desired by women

Women always say that men are the shallower sex and judge women based on appearance, while women judge men based on other things. This is manifestly false. Everyone judges potential romantic/sexual partners on their appearance. This is a simple fact. The difference, however, is that there are a diverse selection of physically acceptable women, and that doesn't happen for men. Some men like morbidly obese, some like chubby women, some men like skinny, some like tall, some like short, some like blondes, some like gingers, some like big butts, some like small butts, some like developed muscled physiques, some like tiny childish physiques, some like ethnic, some don't, etc. But with women, this does not exist. There is only one perfect man. So if a girl is 'ugly', that's okay. She is beautiful by some guys' standards. A girl that I think is beautiful, you might think is meeeh, and vice versa. So if you're an ugly woman, all you need to do is wait for a guy who is turned on by women who look like you. But men don't have that option. Men need to be the perfect Channing Tatum, Paul Walker, Hugh Jackman, Henry Cavill, 6'3, chiseled abs, cute face, impeccable bone structure, big shoulders, good jaw, masculine, and if they don't have that, they will likely die unloved unless they have great wealth. You never hear women lust over a short, emasculate, weedy, spectacled Asian male. You never hear women lust over the Woody Allens, the John Candy's, the Phil Spectors, the Wayne Rooney's, the Richard Pryor's, the Donnelly Miller's. There is only one type of guy women lust for: it is the men that are tall (avg. height at the very least), handsome and masculine.

Why do I wake up in the morning? A girl who struggles with her weight can still find love, because there are TONS of men who love fat girls. Hell, she has the added option to lose weight and have even more guys interested. But are there any women who love FAT guys? Nope. A fat guy can lose weight and get the body of a Greek God, but if his face is busted, he's still unattractive. Not so with a women who loses weight and gets a hot body - they'll be literally 1000's of guys after her. See what I'm getting at?

Are there women that lust for short, skinny, nerdy-looking guys? Nope. I used to be very skinny and short in my teens and girls were repulsed by me. So repulsed I used to get rejected and face hostile/nasty comments by female strangers just for the act of being in their space. Now a short skinny girl is highly desired. Double standard right there.

I'm not skinny anymore or obese, that was just my example. My point is, ugly men will always be second rate. Are genes are not wanted by society so we are shunned and mistreated. So what's the point of getting up in the morning if you're as ugly as me?

That might be your experience, but from what I see, and the people I know, women care less about looks than men do.

Now if you'd have said bank balance...

Hi Bert
Welcome to the Relationship Forum (if your first time).
I sympathize to some degree with what you have expressed. It seems we are in a particularly difficult time in Western History in which unhealthy narcissism is on the increase, and young women now seem to be as vulnerable as young men to such unhealthy, grandiose self-schemas. A narcissistic woman, just like her male counterpart, behaves like an overgrown spoiled child: cold, unhappy, never satisfied, demanding, and thus unable to truly love herself.
However, I note that arranged marriages are largely a thing of the past, and women, psychologically healthy or otherwise, do have the right to choose whomever they want to go out with or have a relationship with - just like men do.
So first of all, we men all have to accept this universal right of choice in dating and relationships. We must try to go out with women who are attractive to us, and in the process suffer a lot of rejection. There simply is no other way, unless, as you noted, you are rich, and in this case the problems don't seem to disappear, they only get more intense.

I know you have probably heard this before, but people who are attractive by the standards of the mass media often aren't always so attractive inside, being more at risk to narcissistic or histrionic traits or even personality disorders. Here is a revealing post by one of our members from the Histrionic Personality Disorder/HPD forum:

I had posed this question:

"Now it seems like we worship it..a beautiful woman is often unconditionally admired by everyone - is this a gift and/or a curse for her?"

The response by the female member who said she was HPD, and who had worked as a stripper:

It's a curse & here's why:
Physical beauty (along with the right kinda Histrionic flare) can get you many things in life, and they all come way to easy. The way physical beauty can attract someone is one thing, but add the manipulation and attitude that goes along with it and you've a recipe for disaster. You can damn near anything you want, any time you want if you know how to use that look and attidue to your 'benefit' along with the rights sources to manipulate. You know you are able to get what you want from 'this guy' or the next with ease. You work the guy you're with to give what you want, and he usually does because he knows that a beautiful girl like you will just find someone else to give it to her if he doesn't. So the fear of loosing you, coupled with the need to keep you happy, makes men cave to your every wish and whim.

How is that a 'bad' thing?

Well... As someone who made her living on her looks and manipulated men for money as a profession, I can tell you CLEARLY & HONESTLY what happens and why it's a bd thing!
Things come too easy because of the looks/attitude combo- correct?
There's not much effort in that manipulation, other juggling 'BFs' (a man who gives you stuff is NOT a real BF, and is commonly referred to as a 'fish' in manipulation realationships) and keeping them seperate from one and other; while making sure they all feel special, attended to and needed. So you develope GREAT skill at using your looks and assets to gain you everything you want and need in life. There's no need for more! You don't need to work, you don't need an education, there's always more money coming so you don't need to save anything (lots of fish in that bottomless barrel for the beautiful) and all you really DO need is a fresh stylish wardrobe, a tight little body, a pretty smile and some fake interest in your guys & you're all SET!
Pretty easy- huh?
But that's just it, it's TOO easy and you don't go to school, you don't save your money, you don't get job experince, and many other important social development aspects that 'real girls' (what strippers call non stripper girls) in the real world get.
You think you're ahead, because you have everything you want and need in the moment, but you're actually WAY BEHIND the game here! Because when the gravey train ends (and it WILL END- youth is beauty, beauty is youth & youth only lasts while you're young) you've got nothing to fall back on.
- You don't have any money.
- You don't have any real job expereince or education.
- You're severly lacking in social skills and how to build and keep a healthy relationship.
- You' can't depend on your looks anymore, and you've got nothing else to fall back on.
You've wasted your youth and a big portion of your life on chassing something that was meaningless and ultimately got you nothing in the end!

All you know how to do is manipulate men and use them to your advantage. While you can continue to do this when you're on the worng side of 30, the money you get after you reach the 'Big 3-0' is only 1/2 of once you got, add ten years 1/2 it again, and so on...

So yes, it IS a curse, and the more you use it to your 'advantage' the more it hurts you in the end...

Ironically, attractive people even make bad decisions that are physically unhealthy to themselves. For example, women who pursue an extreme program or beauty, wearing stilletoes and high heels can do physical damage to the muscles in their legs and ankles. Or they might be bulemic or anorexic, damaging themselves with excessive exposure to stomach acid, or low nutrient levels, etc.

Although we all have to take responsibility for the choices we make in life, in my opinion a lot of this is due to our nearly constant exposure to mass media, the advertising industry, and the elusive, unrealistic, and ultimately damaging images they barrage us with. So forget the mass media and it's images: remember that their one rather ordinary purpose in life is to sell a product and make money, and if deception is required, they will do it.

Instead of TV and popular culture, believe this:
-your life and everyone else's is an invaluable gift.
-you and I and everyone else should accept, and love and respect their true selves.
-you and I have problems to solve in life, but so does everyone (including attractive women and men -
I find it curious that people who seem to 'have it all' will still be unsatisfied, or even manufacture their own problems. If you watch some of the better rehab shows, which, besides any ensationalism, still serve as a good reality check to mass media values (i.e., like Dr. Drew Pinsky's), you will get an idea of what I am talking about.

Besides what you said in your post, I don't know any more details, but I know myself, and sometimes I have wanted what I couldn't have, which is always a recipe for misery. Instead, if you are more prudent in what you desire, it doesn't disappoint you when you don't get it. And sometimes, a kind of transcendence occurs when you are prudent; something is released in you and/or the woman you desire, and ironically you end up getting what you wanted; to go our with her, etc. And sometimes when you do finally get to know her, you see that you were chasing an illusion, a fantasy in your mind that was either suggested by her, or it was just an illusion entirely of your own manufacture. Hmm?

Having said the above, if you feel that you have particular challenges in your appearance you might want to consult a beautician for men, or a medical doctor that does cosmetic surgery. Boys/men that had unusual features often were able to feel more at ease with themselves after what are often simple procedures. Like I said I don't know your details, but that is one possible solution.

But ultimately I hope you realize as I have that it is foolish nihilism to invest all your resources and attention in your appearance, while neglecting one's physical, intellectual, moral, ethical, and spiritual dimensions. That holds for both women, and men.

Best health and peace
orion

I'm not going to lie to you; it's very difficult for ugly guys to be desired by women. Ugly guys really have to have everything else going on for them from personality, social status, fitness, wealth, fashion savvy, etc. At the very least in the dating world, ugly women (unless there is something physically wrong with them) can still get male attention (although maybe not from the guys that they would prefer nor as often as they would prefer) by virtue of being a woman. Even fat, ugly women can find men if they lower their standards. He won't be prince charming, but that's more than can be said for men. Men generally have it harder in the dating world.

Being fashion savvy and having social status is basically the male equivalent to cosmetics for women. There's really no substitute for natural physical attractiveness in the dating realm though. A guy who is physically attractive and has the other things will always have first dibs when it comes to women.

So what's the point of getting up in the morning if you're as ugly as me?

There are tons of reasons for getting up in the morning. I don't get up in the morning for the purpose of being an object of desire for women or to provide pleasure to women. I live for me and me alone. I'm not a woman's handbag, hair accessory, or pet poodle.

Disclaimer: I am new to these forums, and as the below post indicates, I can be pretty long-winded.

While I cannot really comment on the bulk of your post as I don't consider myself to be a particularly unattractive man, I did find that your closing question of, "why bother getting up in the morning?" was somewhat concerning.

Intimate sexual relationships are important motivators, to be sure, but perhaps if this is truly how you feel about being an "ugly" man, you should consider rearranging your priorities. Surely there is more to life than pursuing a lay? If there is not, and if you are unsuccessful in that pursuit then maybe you're simply caught in something of a circle. Your presumably bitter desperation might have become far more off-putting to women than any perceived physical unattractiveness.
Now, every failed attempt at wooing a woman makes you feel more desperate, and reinforces this bitterly negative stereotype of women that you harbour. People pick up on these things, and a frustrated, defeatist attitude is not a winning formula for making ladies moist.

Basically, find other ways to improve your worth to yourself; be it working out, excelling academically or in your career, etc. Build your confidence in other ways. It will be good for your self-esteem, and while it is not guaranteed to attract a mate, it is a healthier use of your energies than railing against what you believe to be the natural order of things.

A broad approach to self-improvement will show in your interactions with others, and this could lead to the intimate relationship that eludes you.
Sure, a lot of people can be very shallow, but men and women both respond to cues other than the sheer physical representation of your genetics.

Also, is it possible that the problem might lie with the types of women to whom you're attracted? Maybe you're simply pursuing the wrong prey?

I will be honest and say that most women I know are under 30, and I would say they are far far more shallow than males are in the main. Because in my experience, while the guys I hang out with will date all the attractive women thye can, they in general end up with the one that helps him through that illness or the one that looks after him the best. Where as a lot of the girls I know don't even tend to get into that position unless he's good looking.

With women, I think the priorities really changed in the last generation or two. It went from complete repression, to absolute freedom.

I will say though there is not one "perfect man". All the conversations I hear at work are "he's hot" and another girl saying he's not her type. Although she's just as shallow for another type of guy.

Theres a few things you need to accept, which are that good looking guys are going to have more girlfriends than not so good looking guys. And also, that if you have standards of a girls looks that you wouldn't go below, it's unfair for you to expect girls not to have the same standards.

My friend, this is not how relationships are judged. Sure, I'm not going to lie, good looking people do get treated better but this does not mean less attractive people can't be desired. I have seen many times in my life where there is a man less attractive than me physically but he is with a bombshell.
The secret is, if you believe in yourself and believe that you are worthy of beauty, you will get with any woman you want! That is the wonderful thing about relationships and dating! Men are not judged as far as women on their looks, but rather their character. If you have the balls to approach a woman, tease and flirt, and be perfectly honest with your intentions, they will love you for it!
Before, I used to feel the same way about myself. I never had luck with women and almost every single interaction I heard, "I have a boyfriend", but now I never hear that crap!
It may also not be your appearance, but your body language. You should read the book, "Love Signals: A Practical Field Guide to the Body Language of Courtship" by David Givens. It will give you valuable insight into courtship and is a great read!
I hope this helps you out, and remember to stay positive and grateful for all the things you love in life!

Interesting Post!

If things were as you say, no one would be married, all would be baron, the human race would not be here.

SO, why have you not looked up attraction on the net. look up info on youtube about attraction...


Your looks mean nothing! a confident smile means everything!

Girls want certain traits for there future children. You need to show women you have these positive strong traits! once you turn there buttons on, those buttons stay on!

Women are more interested in your complexion and being thin then muscle. They want to know you have been running through that jungle and can take care of yourself. Remember, you are holding the chromosomes they need to create children. They respect that your taking care of that body that houses those life giving blueprints. Its all biology!

You must learn to approach women and make them laugh. Laughing builds status, and its all about status in a women's eyes.. If you have higher status then she, you are in. You make her laugh for 5 minutes none stop, she will marry you!

How you dress, your grooming, your style, your shoes, did you cut those fingernails. How you hold yourself, how you communicate in a group. These are things that biologically push buttons in women.

Look up attraction and dating!

Although we all have to take responsibility for the choices we make in life, in my opinion a lot of this is due to our nearly constant exposure to mass media, the advertising industry, and the elusive, unrealistic, and ultimately damaging images they barrage us with.

Maybe it is like only certain people can do certain things, only tall big guys
can be in pro sports, desirable guys get to have kids, and other subtle
nuances.

The only 'good' news I can say is if desirable people want to get laid all
the time that is opportunity to take advantage of ie. concentrate on getting
promoted at work for more money and status.