whichway wrote:Akuma wrote:Isnt this the same with a Non in any case? I mean shame itself is a pathological phenomenon because it generalizes badness from something specific to - well something general, ergo "me". Looks and character being more close to "I am" compared to stuff that I do seems the case for evreyone.
So without having read it it seems this study is saying that in this regard pwNPD are totally normal.
How dare pwNPD be normal!!
Ah but wait a minute we're overlooking a crucial part of the study - pw vulnerable NPD are
prone to suicidal ideation over this shame. (Which I would then personally also draw the conclusion that the shame is felt more intensely than nons normally feel it.)
I want to take a shower and I'm in a lazy mood so I'll just do some quick free-association notes.
On the one hand side the study doesnt show causation but connection. A BPD tho will fall into a pit of despair imo not because of shame but because of fear of abandonment. As to intensity, I dunno where you get it from, I would rather think that pNPD feel shame less as its more repressed.
The difference of behaviour and character/physiology might be a difference in the identification-process underlying depression and possibly shame; which aint limited to NPD tho, but to depression and shame generally. So basically "my penis is small" -> "my penis is bad" -> "i am my penis" -> "i am bad" -> "i will kill myself"... or ... -> "i am bad" -> "everything is bad" -> "i will destroy everything". The difference of this with behaviour seems to be aiming at what Freud wrote a hundred years ago in 1917, namely that the lost idealized object becomes identified with and then aspcts of the object so attached to teh ego will become attacked ergo "i dropped the milk" -> "I'm a klutz" -> "i cant do anything right" -> "i am bad" -> "i will to kill myself", so in behaviour the identification is not with a part of one's body but with the part of the mind of another person.
This is more complicated because is there grieving in there and loss? The first might be PS; but the second might be D.
And so on.