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The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

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The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby cop this » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:38 pm

“My grandad was the first person to achieve this, despite everyone saying it was impossible.”

So, let’s take a hypothetical position that it is possible to actually do what most paedophiles, and those involved professionally tend to agree is not possible - that one could change a sexual orientation to children (we can call it this for convenience, but it hasn’t been proved as such) into what would be regarded as normal, and I mean resolve completely, not just sublimating or controlling it.

I know the answer for many here, since they have stated their positions, commitment, and even hostility to the very idea, but I would like to hear from others who would want to change their current position. I’ll make it more enticing by adding that a philanthropist will give the first person to do so one million pounds (dollars if you’d like, but I think you would prefer pounds), after all, we have to have some incentive, apart from the greater prospect of having a less problem-strewn life.

I know there is work in the Netherlands and Germany going on that is similar, apart from all the SOTP courses available in many countries, but I believe these mainly revolve around control of behaviour rather than change in the way I am describing - as do most SOTPs. I also know that, even if possible, it would likely be very expensive (the range of what is necessary to deal with dictates this), involve much resources, commitment, time from the individual and those others involved. It might take a decade or possibly be achieved in one or two years, so how much time would you donate to such a task?

Here are some suggested items used in such work that might make such a proposition viable, although how any modules would be scheduled, their order, amount of time spent on each, etc., I wouldn’t know since I have absolutely no qualifications relating to therapy whatsoever - this is just supposition:

1. Empathy, emotions, and nurturing - These will not necessarily be absent in any particular paedophile, but might be, such that any therapy which checked or enhanced all three to normal levels (whatever that is) would probably be beneficial. It is possible that enhancing empathy and nurturing feelings towards children, if absent, will tend to replace, or check, those that see children as potential sexual partners. The enabling of emotional expression, where absent, should also enable more natural feelings to develop, such that relationships with adults will tend to be easier too, if lacking. The aim would be to see children as just children, without any more sexual feeling than any non-paedophile might have for most peers - we might find them attractive or not, but they will not usually invade our minds to provoke fantasies much of the time. It is possible that the use of virtual reality systems might have a use here, as also in item 5.

2. Blocking the libido - It is likely that during much or even the whole duration of any therapy, one might have to block any sexual desire, or limit it such that it doesn’t interfere with any work done, and drugs would probably be used to effect this. No doubt something might be required to replace this, since it does seem to be such a large part of our lives, some more so than others, but I have no idea what that might be, apart from item 6.

3. Removing the focus - Along with the last item, the other main thing that might hinder any progress will likely be the inability to avoid children in one’s environment, such that one’s feelings and thinking will constantly be triggered into reacting. Perhaps being in a retreat (monastery-like) would help here. But, whether in a retreat or not, one cannot escape what goes on in one’s head - so the next item.

4. Altering one's thinking - What much of the SOTPs tend to deal with, usually by CBT, to counter the thinking that enables paedophilia to thrive in the mind, when the absence of this will aid all the other aspects. It is just not healthy to think one way and act another, unless one wants to live a lie, so not having intrusive thoughts constantly is the aim here - actually believing that paedophilia is not what one wants. The truth or false claims of both sides will be irrelevant, since the aim is to remove oneself from the environment that tends to make one’s thoughts feed on them. After all, the aim is change, so why make it more difficult. One can see that this might be viewed as brain-washing, but the aim should be to achieve a more neutral condition, so not triggered by any particular stimuli, especially those relating to children. One’s absence from most of the so-called support forums would probably be necessary, since they don’t do much supporting, other than supporting what the person currently has. And this might be seen as more reinforcing than supporting.

5. Sexual reorientation - The heart of the matter, and the most difficult no doubt. Without much of the previous, this will probably not succeed, even if possible. Let us speculate that various drugs, hormones, or brain stimulation might enable this to happen, possibly with sex therapy involving adults (eventually), such that a more normal sexual attraction to peers would be possible. I know the history of such treatments is not good, attempts to change a homosexual orientation, for example, but it might not be beyond the realms of science to achieve this in the future - two links given shortly are worth a look. And, even if it was found that paedophilia was caused by genetic or biological influences, there still remains the possibility, as with gene or hormone therapy, that there might be successful ways to counter this.

6. Expression therapy - Whether emotional or physical, this might play a role during the whole of any course of treatment so as to keep one motivated and reduce the commotion that will be going on in one’s head while involved in any treatment. It might also support commitment, since this will be necessary in large amounts - no one would say any of this would at all be easy to achieve.

7. Resolving any other possible problems - It is not inevitable that a paedophile will have any additional problem areas in their lives than any other person, but it is often found that many will have either mental issues or personality disorders that will need to be addressed, since usually these will hinder any or all of the work going on elsewhere. Distortions in reasoning or control of behaviour will likely be two such areas. For many, dealing with any of these issues successfully will dictate whether they are able to complete any course of treatment. Self-discipline, commitment, and perseverance might also be three areas where work might be necessary.

The following two links are just a glimpse into what we might expect from future research:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121249.htm ................. Brain's 'gender' may be quite flexible: Mechanism that plays key role in sexual differentiation of brain described

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-08-t ... xuals.html

So, would anyone prefer to see their grandchild say the sentence at the top, or is it just not possible? Surely the drive to prove everyone wrong (plus a million pounds :lol: ) is worth it, or just having the thought that one might have contributed to this in some way would give some satisfaction. Perhaps indicate which would motivate one more, the money or the change?

In our celebrity culture, the first person to actually do this might become quite famous. Although I know nearly all of this is just speculation, is it really so unbelievable that the presented scenario might be enacted in the future, so how much time would you donate to such an enterprise? I know the answer from many - none - since many just don’t see a problem with their paedophilic attraction. Society does, however, so it is your choice. I’m afraid I haven’t got a million quid, but I’ll donate a tenner (um, after I see the evidence).

It is possible that this might already have happened and is old news, but I wouldn’t know that.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby RecoveringSO » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:15 pm

The efforts at redirecting sexual interest in pedophiles has been mixed, but altogether not quite successful. It is more successful with those who fit the "nonexclusive" as opposed to "exclusive" range, and is also more successful with those who fit the "fixated" as opposed to the "regressed" range. As with most cases of psychological practices, what works for one will only serve to complicate the issue for another.

Before I begin presenting my opinions on your proposals, I would like to address a distortion which I feel you may possess: Yes, behaviors are a very large part of SOTP, but the cognitive portions are also addressed; such as Empathy, Self-Esteem, Issues stemming from our own abuse (a vast majority of offenders have suffered abuse in their own right), Attractions ... In a "decent" SOTP, these facets of humanity are far from ignored.

cop this wrote:1. Empathy, emotions, and nurturing - These will not necessarily be absent in any particular paedophile, but might be, such that any therapy which checked or enhanced all three to normal levels (whatever that is) would probably be beneficial. It is possible that enhancing empathy and nurturing feelings towards children, if absent, will tend to replace, or check, those that see children as potential sexual partners. The enabling of emotional expression, where absent, should also enable more natural feelings to develop, such that relationships with adults will tend to be easier too, if lacking. The aim would be to see children as just children, without any more sexual feeling than any non-paedophile might have for most peers - we might find them attractive or not, but they will not usually invade our minds to provoke fantasies much of the time. It is possible that the use of virtual reality systems might have a use here, as also in item 5.


In most treatment programs of which I am aware, this is addressed. In fact, a workbook called "Empathy and Compassion In Action" is standard cirruculum for most SOTP of which I am aware. There are very mixed responses to this (coming from the offenders themselves): [1] This will "fix" the problem; [2] This will not "fix' the problem, but will "slow us down" and act as a helpful deterrent, but should not be depended upon completely; [3] It's a waste of effort and time as, when we have reached the point of offending behavior, our "needs" are considered more important than any other's needs anyway.

My position is #2.

cop this wrote:2. Blocking the libido - It is likely that during much or even the whole duration of any therapy, one might have to block any sexual desire, or limit it such that it doesn’t interfere with any work done, and drugs would probably be used to effect this. No doubt something might be required to replace this, since it does seem to be such a large part of our lives, some more so than others, but I have no idea what that might be, apart from item 6.


I oppose this, especially if presented as a "forced" action. In taking psychiatric medications in the past, one or more of them had the effect of artificially reducing the drive or preventing the ability to perform. My personal experience is that this only served to increase or create sexual frustration, and in the seeking of reducing or resolving that frustration, served to increase rather than decrease the fixation. Other persons, however, both offenders and non-offenders, have voluntarily submitted or even requested such treatment and there are those who are very satisfied with the results. I consider this a delicate treatment that should never be forced, never be summarily

cop this wrote:3. Removing the focus - Along with the last item, the other main thing that might hinder any progress will likely be the inability to avoid children in one’s environment, such that one’s feelings and thinking will constantly be triggered into reacting. Perhaps being in a retreat (monastery-like) would help here. But, whether in a retreat or not, one cannot escape what goes on in one’s head - so the next item.


This is addressed in treatment, most notably under the heading "Cognitive Interventions" where offenders are taught a variety of methods to shift our focuses away from children and place them elsewhere. Some examples of these techniques include:

--> "Stimulus Control Procedures". Removing from our personal environments those things that may serve to stimulate our "deviant interests".
--> "Thought Stop and Replace". When our thoughts or attractions gravitate towards that which got us into trouble to begin with, we are taught to practice "stopping" that thought and "replacing" it with something else.
--> "Aversion Imagery". Another technique where we are taught to bring the fantasy to a conclusion (encouraged to avoid the sexual parts) ad fantasize all the terrible consequences to everyone involved, including ourselves.
--> "Action". (Couldn't find another word). In other words, sitting behind a computer and having the urge to view unhealthy or questionable imagery, Get Up And Do Something!

If I put my mind to it, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to come up with more techniques addressed and taught in reputable SOTP. But in conclusion, most SOTP programs do look at ways to "remove the focus" and help the subject do so of their own accord and under their own steam.

cop this wrote:4. Altering one's thinking - What much of the SOTPs tend to deal with, usually by CBT, to counter the thinking that enables paedophilia to thrive in the mind, when the absence of this will aid all the other aspects. It is just not healthy to think one way and act another, unless one wants to live a lie, so not having intrusive thoughts constantly is the aim here - actually believing that paedophilia is not what one wants. The truth or false claims of both sides will be irrelevant, since the aim is to remove oneself from the environment that tends to make one’s thoughts feed on them. After all, the aim is change, so why make it more difficult. One can see that this might be viewed as brain-washing, but the aim should be to achieve a more neutral condition, so not triggered by any particular stimuli, especially those relating to children. One’s absence from most of the so-called support forums would probably be necessary, since they don’t do much supporting, other than supporting what the person currently has. And this might be seen as more reinforcing than supporting.


You have presented a myriad of facets in this one post but I will try to encapsulate.

Reputable SOTP programs do encourage the subject to look into their beliefs about themselves, children, society, the rules, love and sex and re-evaluate them.

Reputable SOTP programs go beyond approach/avoidance.

cop this wrote:5. Sexual reorientation - The heart of the matter, and the most difficult no doubt. Without much of the previous, this will probably not succeed, even if possible. Let us speculate that various drugs, hormones, or brain stimulation might enable this to happen, possibly with sex therapy involving adults (eventually), such that a more normal sexual attraction to peers would be possible. I know the history of such treatments is not good, attempts to change a homosexual orientation, for example, but it might not be beyond the realms of science to achieve this in the future - two links given shortly are worth a look. And, even if it was found that paedophilia was caused by genetic or biological influences, there still remains the possibility, as with gene or hormone therapy, that there might be successful ways to counter this.


Hmmm. Voluntarily redefining one's sexual orientation has proven to be ineffective and even destructive, both to pedophiles and gays. I personally hold the belief that our sexual orientations can change through experience; but I also hold that sexual orientations may only change "of their own accord" (if you will) but a change in sexual orientation can not be chosen or forced; and if the attempt is made to force or change a sexual orientation, the results are damaging to the subject.

cop this wrote:6. Expression therapy - Whether emotional or physical, this might play a role during the whole of any course of treatment so as to keep one motivated and reduce the commotion that will be going on in one’s head while involved in any treatment. It might also support commitment, since this will be necessary in large amounts - no one would say any of this would at all be easy to achieve.


Most STOP programs do look at our individual skills and willingness to express various emotions. IN fact, a workbook called "Men And Anger" (and similar publications) are often employed for those in need of such assistance.

cop this wrote:7. Resolving any other possible problems - It is not inevitable that a paedophile will have any additional problem areas in their lives than any other person, but it is often found that many will have either mental issues or personality disorders that will need to be addressed, since usually these will hinder any or all of the work going on elsewhere. Distortions in reasoning or control of behaviour will likely be two such areas. For many, dealing with any of these issues successfully will dictate whether they are able to complete any course of treatment. Self-discipline, commitment, and perseverance might also be three areas where work might be necessary.


Summarizing all your points, including #7: To be sure, it's been over 2 decades since I have been through SOTP. If my information/experience is out of date SOTP has degraded to the point of simply avoidance/escape without addressing the other issues that you have presented here (which were addressed through the program I attended), then that program isn't worth a whole lot and is a waste of taxpayer's money; and I would question the legitimacy and effectiveness of such a program.

Understanding that yours is a hypothetical, I would subscribe to your hypothetical with a few outliers:

* Point 2 would be strictly voluntary and closely monitored
* Point 5 2ould be excluded
* Suffering negative consequences of our actions is a part of the corrective process, thus this "retreat" should not be a country club: though I do believe treatment would be more effective if offenders were separated from the general population, whose actions and reactions are more harmful and counterproductive to the offender's reformation
* Point 8 would be added: That the avoidance/escape strategies should not be discarded and employed as a part of the treatment.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby YouthRightsRadical » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:23 am

Okay, I'll play your game.

Per your hypothetical, a decade of torture and brainwashing, instead of doing what it does in real life and just breaking people, works as advertised and can reorient pedophiles to liking boobies instead.

Even if I didn't consider the end goal and objective a morally abhorent violation of the core of a person's being, that still seems like a really low return on investment even in your hypothetical. What's the up side here? I mean, it isn't even as though the people who went through your hypothetical reorientation program would stop being mistreated by society, since even if it works, there's no reason that bigots who already trade fantasies about torturing and mutilating nonoffending pedophiles would either believe that it worked (since they are already demonstrated to be immune to evidence) or care (since they're only in this to hurt people different from them anyway).

I know people put a lot of poetry into the idea of walking through fire for the sake of love, but that's generally in response to a real, tangible relationship, not some hypothetical relationship that you go through your decade of torture in order to maybe give it a chance to happen at some future point.

Incidentally, how young would you start in on these "treatments" once you verified they worked, cop? Would you wait until the subjects were old enough to be legally allowed to decide for themselves, or would you do what the ex-gay folks do and rely on "parental consent" so you can start in early without needing to get the permission of your victims? After all, it's for their own good, right?
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby Atma » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:33 am

1. Remove any mentions of pedophilia and replace it with homosexuality.
2. Post this on a homosexual forum.
3. Learn why this is a bad idea.

I know. I know. Many think that homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia, but I do, and I will maintain this stance.

Anyway, you've already noted that this thread isn't directed at people who have already made their decision to not go through with it, so I'll leave your thread be now.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby cumulusjames » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:11 am

Atma wrote:1. Remove any mentions of pedophilia and replace it with homosexuality.
2. Post this on a homosexual forum.
3. Learn why this is a bad idea.

I know. I know. Many think that homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia, but I do, and I will maintain this stance.

Anyway, you've already noted that this thread isn't directed at people who have already made their decision to not go through with it, so I'll leave your thread be now.


Homosexuality tends closer to paedophilia than the gays like to admit. Look at BIBCAM (don't literally look at it - you'll go to jail) it was gay men who started that nonsense, not paedophilic child pornographers.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby Kirill » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:22 am

Although, my paraphilia is not pedophilia, it is autogynephilia with masochism, I used masturbatory reconditioning in order to expand my sexual pattern. This technique worked not very well for me. Then I started to learn about the neuroplasticity and found the study about reopening the critical period in adults for learning of absolute pitch. In that study in order to enhance neuroplasticity valproate was used. Combination of valproate treatment with learning of absolute pitch was more effective than simple learning. That is why I decided to use combination of valproate treatment with masturbatory reconditioning. Unfortunately I didn’t finish my experiment due to valproate side effects: sleep disturbance, pain in the liver. That is why I decided to use meditation, abstinence from masturbation - the relatively safe techniques. And now I can say that sexual relationship with female is possible for me, especially nowadays with different available auxiliaries which could be used to enhance erection. But all these tools are not important , only love is important. And I always fall in love with women. That’s why my situation is very different from situation of pedophiles. Pedophilia is not about sex, pedophilia is about love. And I think that for recognition this fundamental property of pedophilia it is appropriate to designate pedophilia as orientation.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby cop this » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:47 pm

In reply to RecoveringSO:

I'm glad you have responded since you seem eminently qualified than most here to point out any of the errors I might have made.

Before I begin presenting my opinions on your proposals


Not really a proposal - just an exercise really in exploring the possibilities for such treatment if it actually became viable. I am aware that this might never be the case but I have always thought it best to consider the possible rather than the impossible - it tends to get better results in the end. I know that many will dismiss it entirely.

I would like to address a distortion which I feel you may possess: Yes, behaviors are a very large part of SOTP, but the cognitive portions are also addressed; such as Empathy, Self-Esteem, Issues stemming from our own abuse (a vast majority of offenders have suffered abuse in their own right),


Perhaps I didn't fill out all the points sufficiently but I am aware of the cognitive element (and the others), and have commented on the use of CBT in some SOTPs elsewhere.

[2] This will not "fix' the problem, but will "slow us down" and act as a helpful deterrent, but should not be depended upon completely


This was mainly what the post was about - a possible inclusive treatment that would actually be effective in radically changing whole aspects of one's personality, attitudes, and behaviour rather than them being mainly about behaviour control - which I believe is the main aim currently because that is all that is possible at the moment.

I oppose this, especially if presented as a "forced" action. In taking psychiatric medications in the past, one or more of them had the effect of artificially reducing the drive or preventing the ability to perform. My personal experience is that this only served to increase or create sexual frustration, and in the seeking of reducing or resolving that frustration, served to increase rather than decrease the fixation. Other persons, however, both offenders and non-offenders, have voluntarily submitted or even requested such treatment and there are those who are very satisfied with the results. I consider this a delicate treatment that should never be forced, never be summarily.


As the post was an exploration, I don't really have much to say on this, since I have no experience or that much knowledge of the use of drugs in the treatment of paedophiles or sex-offenders, apart from knowing that drugs like Depo Provera have been, and still are possibly used in many countries. I suspect that without such blocking, the whole nature of the treatment might not be possible, but I'll agree it is only conjecture on my part.

If I put my mind to it, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to come up with more techniques addressed and taught in reputable SOTP. But in conclusion, most SOTP programs do look at ways to "remove the focus" and help the subject do so of their own accord and under their own steam.


I am sure you are right. I wasn't suggesting that any of the methods and therapy used in SOTPs be ditched, especially where they work well, but I was trying to envisage something that might work better.

Hmmm. Voluntarily redefining one's sexual orientation has proven to be ineffective and even destructive, both to pedophiles and gays. I personally hold the belief that our sexual orientations can change through experience; but I also hold that sexual orientations may only change "of their own accord" (if you will) but a change in sexual orientation can not be chosen or forced; and if the attempt is made to force or change a sexual orientation, the results are damaging to the subject.


I agree that with our current state of knowledge and abilities this is not possible, and I would not advocate anything that would make life worse for an individual if such treatments were not proven to have a good chance of success. What I envision is that this might happen in the future - I have doubts, since it does appear to be so expensive to do, even if the necessary science and technicalities enabled this.

Understanding that yours is a hypothetical, I would subscribe to your hypothetical with a few outliers:

* Point 2 would be strictly voluntary and closely monitored
* Point 5 would be excluded
* Suffering negative consequences of our actions is a part of the corrective process, thus this "retreat" should not be a country club: though I do believe treatment would be more effective if offenders were separated from the general population, whose actions and reactions are more harmful and counterproductive to the offender's reformation
* Point 8 would be added: That the avoidance/escape strategies should not be discarded and employed as a part of the treatment.


I can understand why Point 2 would be a problem. I just feel, granted with not much to back me up, that the whole programme might be hindered if this was not done. But, as you have pointed out, we all vary so much in this respect that it might not be a problem for some. The problem I have with Point 5 is that I suspect that one will always be at risk of reversion if this is not achieved. It is much like our moral behaviour, those with an inbuilt moral belief are much less likely to behave badly than those who just behave according to imposed rules. Any place we exist, our morals are with us to guide us, but for those who act with regard to rules, they will often break them if they knew they wouldn't be found out. This is one reason why I have no use for religions - they encourage an attitude of not questioning, when an inherent belief in some morality is a better motivator for behaviour. And we all do tend to have a reasonable consensus of what is moral and what is not.

With regard to Point 8 added, I hope that this would not be needed, but I wouldn't discount it. I would hope that the results of such a programme would change someone entirely into being a relatively normal person, and having the same reactions to children as most do, in fact as you described here - and which I actually believe is possible:

"I feel a very deep envy towards those who are not bothered by such thoughts and feelings. I envy them because they can have a positive, safe relationship with children, positively influence them, and tuck them in at night without the thought of crawling between the covers with them even crossing their mind. They can simply, kindly, gently interact with that child and never have to be concerned or second-guess their intentions. They can accept the warm embrace of a child without getting excited."


In reply to YRR:

OK, I'll play your game.


Well I don't think I should play with you - I suspect you have an AK47 handy :lol: , and you have already expressed your opinion about any such treatment programmes.

What's the up side here? I mean, it isn't even as though the people who went through your hypothetical reorientation program would stop being mistreated by society, since even if it works, there's no reason that bigots who already trade fantasies about torturing and mutilating nonoffending pedophiles would either believe that it worked (since they are already demonstrated to be immune to evidence) or care (since they're only in this to hurt people different from them anyway).


You might be right, but I suspect that attitudes might change if society recognised the problems that many paedophiles have, and might be more charitable when they understood the upheaval that this sort of therapy would have in the life of any paedophile, particularly their willingness to give up so much. I can't guarantee that many would still act as you describe as I'm not clairvoyant.

Incidentally, how young would you start in on these "treatments" once you verified they worked, cop? Would you wait until the subjects were old enough to be legally allowed to decide for themselves, or would you do what the ex-gay folks do and rely on "parental consent" so you can start in early without needing to get the permission of your victims? After all, it's for their own good, right?


To be honest, I can't answer this, since I have no real knowledge of medical ethics other than any other person, and we are having many problems already with various situations involving the young - transsexual surgery, custody, etc.


In reply to Atma:

I know. I know. Many think that homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia, but I do, and I will maintain this stance.


OK, but your stance is not based on much evidence as yet.


In reply to Kirill:

Although, my paraphilia is not pedophilia, it is autogynephilia with masochism, I used masturbatory reconditioning in order to expand my sexual pattern. This technique worked not very well for me. Then I started to learn about the neuroplasticity and found the study about reopening the critical period in adults for learning of absolute pitch. In that study in order to enhance neuroplasticity valproate was used. Combination of valproate treatment with learning of absolute pitch was more effective than simple learning. That is why I decided to use combination of valproate treatment with masturbatory reconditioning. Unfortunately I didn’t finish my experiment due to valproate side effects: sleep disturbance, pain in the liver. That is why I decided to use meditation, abstinence from masturbation - the relatively safe techniques. And now I can say that sexual relationship with female is possible for me, especially nowadays with different available auxiliaries which could be used to enhance erection. But all these tools are not important , only love is important. And I always fall in love with women. That’s why my situation is very different from situation of pedophiles. Pedophilia is not about sex, pedophilia is about love. And I think that for recognition this fundamental property of pedophilia it is appropriate to designate pedophilia as orientation.


I think perhaps most paedophiles would agree with you about the 'love' aspect but it is the 'sex' aspect that causes so many problems. One can still love children without being sexually attracted to them, in fact most parents do. And I don't agree about it being a sexual orientation, but of course, many do.


I can understand how the treatment I have outlined could be more likely to be effective on what might be commonly termed the 'regressed' paedophile, since returning to an adult sexual attraction that one once had is much more likely than changing to one that one has never had. I'm no scientist so I can't really speculate on what might be possible, but the links I included seem to show that something is possible in this field. The big stumbling block might be the 'critical period', and this might never be overcome. I'll admit that my outline of a possible treatment programme is a bit crude, with not enough research in many areas, but it is something I actually beleve is possible and worthwhile for many, if and when it ever became available. I don't enjoy seeing people suffer any more than anyone else, but I also don't see paedophile advocacy as being any answer to their problems.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby RecoveringSO » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:24 pm

I am open to the idea of "blocking" medicinally, but not for me. IN fact, I have researched and duly contemplated volunteering for such treatments. After doing so, I have determined not to, and here are the reasons why:

1. DP has a possible side effect of depression. I already struggle with depression. Depression is much more debilitating to my daily functioning and overall health than is sexual attraction to children. "Solving" a smaller problem at the risk of worsening a "bigger" problem is not a good trade off.

2. DP has the risk of pelvic cancer. Yes, this is most notable in females using DP for other reasons, but I do not exclude that risk to myself and just don't want to succumb to pelvic cancer, thank you anyway :? .

3. A list of psychiatric meds forced down my throat by those who believed they were wiser (the DOC) have, each and every time, had adverse affects on my functioning and life and have been disastrous. When I reported that I was refusing further therapy of that nature, my parole officer visited me at my home and advised me that he could send me back to prison for the parole violation (we're "required" to take proscribed psychiatric meds as proscribed). So I put my hands behind my back and told him to start cuffing. I was willing to back to prison to get that crap out of my system and keep it out. Every effort to medicinally alter my cognitive/emotional functioning has had destructive and disastrous effects on me. I will not take that risk again. Ever.

No one who has not demonstrated that they are a danger to society should be forced into compliance. "Fear of danger to society" is not the same as "demonstrated danger". Non-offending pedophiles have not demonstrated this. I would find the idea of forced compliance objectionable and unethical. I'm not saying that's your hypothetical; I'm just saying.

Every competent person should have the ability to determine what goes into their bodies and what does not. As I am competent and I have chosen that DP and drugs will not be put into my body to alter my psycho-sexual functioning, I hold that this choice be respected.

After rereading my words that you reposted, I did find myself becoming a tad bit emotional. If it wasn't forced and if the medicinal aspects were either removed or made to be strictly voluntary, I would be willing to consider; but knowing me as I know me, it wouldn't be right away ... I'd have to sit back and monitor the success or failure rate of the program before committing myself to something of this nature, which could have either highly positive or highly negative (or both) influences on others.

Anyway. I'm done babbling for now. 8)
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby Endymion » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:26 pm

cop this wrote:I suspect that attitudes might change if society recognised the problems that many paedophiles have, and might be more charitable when they understood the upheaval that this sort of therapy would have in the life of any paedophile, particularly their willingness to give up so much. I can't guarantee that many would still act as you describe as I'm not clairvoyant.


Possibly, or perhaps the sight of authority figures in white coats trying to forcibly change people’s attractions would reinforce people’s notion that paedophiles are anomalies that require fixing by drastic means.

I won’t comment on sex offender treatment programmes, as I have no experience or knowledge of them. But on a more philosophical level, I wonder why we would consider doing this in the first place. Aside from YRR’s comments about it being inhumane, I think it wouldn’t be fulfilling our collective aim of protecting children from harm. I’m sure YRR could wheel out the relevant statistics, but to the best of my knowledge the greatest threat to children are situational offenders who lack empathy and impulse control, have a sadistic or controlling bent, etc., and are exploiting vulnerability and availability rather than acting on primary sexual attraction. Surely if we are to eliminate some subset of the population that possess certain qualities we deem dangerous, it should be these characteristics rather than sexual attraction? A concomitant benefit would be that we’d be protecting others from sexual abuse as well.

Sexuality can be a force for good if coupled with the right qualities. As a paedophile who has no issues with empathy or impulse control, who has no sadistic or controlling bent, etc., I have often been the first in a crowd to notice the plight of children and step forward to help whilst others fail to notice or are too afraid to help lest they look like sexual predators.
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Re: The resolving of a paedophilic attraction - a hypothetical

Postby RecoveringSO » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:12 pm

he best of my knowledge the greatest threat to children are situational offenders who lack empathy and impulse control, have a sadistic or controlling bent, etc., and are exploiting vulnerability and availability rather than acting on primary sexual attraction. Surely if we are to eliminate some subset of the population that possess certain qualities we deem dangerous, it should be these characteristics rather than sexual attraction?

I am actually forced to tentatively agree.

We have so much data on sexual offenders that I believe we can identify them before they act out, get them the treatment they need, preventing all kinds of harm. Commonalities of sexual offenders, as Endy has pointed out, include Impulse Control, Controlling or Sadistic Bent; and goes further into identifying common traits and elements of their history and upbringing (religiosity; sexually repressed environment or sexually focused environments; Trauma, abuse, neglect in formative years; the list goes on). I submit that we can identify them early and address these concerns prior to their causing harm.

Now, before knee-jerk reactions, please note that I have included many aspects of common traits of sexual offenders that supersede mere sexual attraction. Also note that I am not speaking of "pedophiles"; I am speaking of "sexual offenders": i.e. Rapists, Exhibitionists, Child molesters, etc.

It sure sounds good on the surface; identifying the common characteristics and the risk RecoveringSO demonstrated to children long ago, whipping RecoveringSO out of the public to address his mountain of self-pity, distorted beliefs and cognitive distortions, preventing me from harming those whom I harmed. The reasons FOR doing have an ethical and moral basis.

But reasons for NOT doing this also have an ethical and moral basis. It swings the door wide open for such atrocities like Pre-Crime, Thought Crimes, etc; and opens the door for authority intervention and employ "rehabilitation camps" or "concentration camps" for, as Palpatine put it, "a safe and secure society". In other words, a "totalitarian" society; one which we don't want to live in, or allow our children to live in.

And when things like this start, they just don't seem to stop until long after they have gone "too far". Point in case: the American public demanded "no constitutional rights for foreign terrorists"; and after such was employed, almost overnight became "no constitutional rights for foreign or domestic terrorists"; and now it is gone beyond even that, leaving "no constitutional rights for foreign or domestic terrorists, or suspected terrorists".

There are strong moral and ethical grounds and implications for protecting a person from themselves and protecting others from the same; but there are strong moral and ethical grounds and implications for NOT doing the same.

But in the case of this particular hypothetical, it is presented as strictly voluntary. Provided it remains strictly voluntary, and provided the lack of evidence demonstrating such a program causes harm (Repairative Therapy), then to rail against the rights of others to embark on such a venture, either as the caregiver or recipient, then I submit the "railers" border on becoming the very oppressive force they seek to overcome.
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