Tentative survey for pedophiles and hebephiles, like myself

You're very welcome, Rinkusu.

No problem. I'm just tired of Gerste's lies and misconceptions and his self-righteousness.
I wonder how he'd feel if someone told him to identify as heterosexual.

ElKahn wrote:I wonder how he'd feel if someone told him to identify as heterosexual.

Exactly.
I'm actually mtf(pre-op) So I wasn't too keen on the idea of having to identify as "male"
Meh, still might partake in this survey anyway.

No, you shouldn't accept these conditions and identify as something you're not.
You're a woman so you should be free to answer this survey with your right gender.

I'm sorry but Gerste has it all wrong once again.

I reiterate: when I ask for gender, I am referring to biology. If you need to qualify that by entering "trans," that's fine. But I really am referring to "what one has downstairs," if you will.

-- Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:07 pm --

I reiterate: when I ask for gender, I am referring to biology. If you need to qualify that by entering "trans," that's fine. But I really am referring to "what one has downstairs," if you will.

-- Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:09 pm --

ElKahn wrote:No, you shouldn't accept these conditions and identify as something you're not.
You're a woman so you should be free to answer this survey with your right gender.

I'm sorry but Gerste has it all wrong once again.

You quibble about terms, but I made my request very clear. Once again, you resort to personal attack. Why?

Gender doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with biology.
That's physical sex, but gender is what's inside your head. You're just wrong.

And "trans" isn't a special gender. Transgender women are just as female as cisgender women. Therefore, you should consider them as FEMALE.

Physical sex and genitals also have nothing to do with "preference". If your survey is about preference, aka sexual orientation, then you should realize this, as sexual orientation is also inside our heads. Please don't cite biology and don't shame science by trying to publish your stupid transphobic survey.

Speaking of which, what is the point of this survey? We're ten pages in and you've been hinting from the beginning that there's some purpose you intend to reveal at some point.

YouthRightsRadical wrote:Speaking of which, what is the point of this survey? We're ten pages in and you've been hinting from the beginning that there's some purpose you intend to reveal at some point.

He mentioned publishing the results in a book, and I don't know the specific question he's studying, but I do hope he intends to get consent from all the people who answered this survey without knowing he wanted to publish their responses.

skeleton-countess wrote:Gender doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with biology.
That's physical sex, but gender is what's inside your head. You're just wrong.

And "trans" isn't a special gender. Transgender women are just as female as cisgender women. Therefore, you should consider them as FEMALE.

Physical sex and genitals also have nothing to do with "preference". If your survey is about preference, aka sexual orientation, then you should realize this, as sexual orientation is also inside our heads. Please don't cite biology and don't shame science by trying to publish your stupid transphobic survey.

There is this petty distinction between gender and sex which is often thrown about in certain circles. But for the purposes of this survey, I used them interchangeably. You are well aware of that. This petty attack about minutiae is tedious. If one does not accept the definitional terms upon which we can all agree, they don't have to answer. Elkahn and you seem hellbent on alienating me, and you just about have your wish.
And as for whether or not I'd appreciate it if another called me "hetero" (Elkahn's line): If I identified as female, which some people think I should, then I would be heterosexual, since my attraction is male-oriented. But we are all playing with semantics here. Socrates said (presumably paraphrased), "If you wish to debate, define your terms." We all need to come to an accepted form of word usage to come to terms with other people's meanings. I stated what I meant, as asked. What is so god awful about that?

-- Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:31 pm --

skeleton-countess wrote:

YouthRightsRadical wrote:Speaking of which, what is the point of this survey? We're ten pages in and you've been hinting from the beginning that there's some purpose you intend to reveal at some point.

He mentioned publishing the results in a book, and I don't know the specific question he's studying, but I do hope he intends to get consent from all the people who answered this survey without knowing he wanted to publish their responses.

No. I mentioned I am writing a book. The book has nothing to do with this survey. I said That I would not specify the book's theme or title, since it would identify me. I only mentioned the book to indicate that I'm under time constraints.
And if it must be said, I am not publishing the results of this survey, or any other form of online interaction, in any way, shape or form—especially since I do not believe that the internet is the best source of citation (contrary to the opinion of many academics). I can't say what the book is about for stated reasons. But I will say this much: it has nothing to do with paraphilias.

Gerste wrote:

skeleton-countess wrote:Gender doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with biology.
That's physical sex, but gender is what's inside your head. You're just wrong.

And "trans" isn't a special gender. Transgender women are just as female as cisgender women. Therefore, you should consider them as FEMALE.

Physical sex and genitals also have nothing to do with "preference". If your survey is about preference, aka sexual orientation, then you should realize this, as sexual orientation is also inside our heads. Please don't cite biology and don't shame science by trying to publish your stupid transphobic survey.

There is this petty distinction between gender and sex which is often thrown about in certain circles. But for the purposes of this survey, I used them interchangeably. You are well aware of that. This petty attack about minutiae is tedious. If one does not accept the definitional terms upon which we can all agree, they don't have to answer. Elkahn and you seem hellbent on alienating me, and you just about have your wish.
And as for whether or not I'd appreciate it if another called me "hetero" (Elkahn's line): If I identified as female, which some poeple think I should, then I would be heterosexual, since my attraction is male-oriented. But we are all playing with semantics here. Socrates said (presumbly paraphrased), "If you wish to debate, define your terms." We all need to come to an accepted form of word usage to come to terms with others people's meanings. I stated what I meant, as asked. What is so god awful about that?

A couple things:
If you want your survey to be seen as credible, and talk about biology, then you need to adhere to scientific rules and conventions.
1. Science regards physical sex and gender as two separate things and DOES NOT VIEW THEM AS INTERCHANGEABLE. Studies have been done about the difference between the two and finds them different. You can't just ignore scientific fact and say they're the same. Otherwise your survey is at odds with the scientific community. It's not a "petty" distinction. The field of psychology has already recognized that the two are different. It's not a semantic difference either. The two words really do have two different meanings.
In any psychology or sociology textbook, you can find clear explanations of the difference between sex and gender. I'm a college student at a major research university and every single psych/soc class I've been in taught me that there is a CLEAR difference between sex and gender. So you can't say these transphobic things and expect to be thought of as credible.
Science does NOT agree with you. So don't act as if scientific experts do.
2. It's unethical to cause unnecessary discomfort to a participant in your study. Especially by demanding they identify as a gender that they don't identify with. Discomfort has no purpose in a self-identification survey. If you were conducting this research as part of a team at a university, invalidating your participants like this would be pretty unethical.
There are still unethical surveys out there like this. But hopefully, in the future, people will realize how discriminatory and backwards they were.

What is so god awful about that?

A couple things:
If you want your survey to be seen as credible, and talk about biology, then you need to adhere to scientific rules and conventions.

This survey is not about biology. The definition of gender was about biology. And yes, sex and gender are used interchangeably in many academic circles (loosely, perhaps), except by those pedants who wish to be anal. For the purposes of this survey, this suffices. I've talked to intellectuals who believe that the terms are anal retentive and overdone.

1. Science regards physical sex and gender as two separate things and DOES NOT VIEW THEM AS INTERCHANGEABLE. Studies have been done about the difference between the two and finds them different. You can't just ignore scientific fact and say they're the same. Otherwise your survey is at odds with the scientific community. It's not a "petty" distinction. The field of psychology has already recognized that the two are different. It's not a semantic difference either. The two words really do have two different meanings."

I'm aware of this. But this is not biology 101. It's a survey for online discussion; not a goddamn treatise. This not for the purpose of intellectual debate; but for the purpose of later discussion and to pique my curiosity.

In any psychology or sociology textbook, you can find clear explanations of the difference between sex and gender. I'm a college student at a major research university and every single psych/soc class I've been in taught me that there is a CLEAR difference between sex and gender. So you can't say these transphobic things and expect to be thought of as credible.

I'm not publishing the results of this survey, nor seeking credibility. This survey, such as it is, has already shown a pattern, but I'm well aware that I will not be able to use it in a broader context.

Science does NOT agree with you. So don't act as if scientific experts do.

No. Certain scientists don't agree with me. "Science" as such is neutral; or is what we have made it. But I was not seeking their approval, and you entirely misunderstand my intentions.

2. It's unethical to cause unnecessary discomfort to a participant in your study. Especially by demanding they identify as a gender that they don't identify with. Discomfort has no purpose in a self-identification survey. If you were conducting this research as part of a team at a university, invalidating your participants like this would be pretty unethical.
There are still unethical surveys out there like this. But hopefully, in the future, people will realize how discriminatory and backwards they were.

There is nothing unethical or unprofessional here. This survey will never be published, and its results will be for online discussion. You are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. No one is being forced to answer these very basic questions, and no one is under any form of duress (except maybe me, since this attack is virulent).