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Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

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Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby whoyouthink » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:48 am

....here I am! :D

I am known to have ADHD, with all of the joys that it brings to one's life. However, there are some parts of me that I can't quite explain away with ADHD that might fit here, particularly regarding control, but the truth is that I may be one of those people with a lot of disorders. I know that I suffer with a lot of anxiety in general, but additionally social anxiety to the point where I guess that Avoidant Personality Disorder could be close to describing me, though perhaps a little more extreme. I do avoid social situations when possible, and have a lot of anxiety about going to new places and such.

In the end, I'm quite the conundrum. Very intelligent and articulate with the ability to really schmooze if I HAVE to, but I would rather isolate myself. I'm very disorganized and messy with my ADHD symptoms shining forth, yet I'm very much a controlling person in other ways. Those are largely ways that I *think* I may identify within this group to some extent, and am hoping for some feedback.

So, without further adieu, I'll shed some more light on me that might help others see wherein here I might "belong" and find help, if not here on this sub-forum. Here you go:

*I know that I battle perfectionism, and always have since being a kid. Only within the past few years did I learn what a detriment it is, rather than an asset.

*I'm very rule and expectation oriented. I hate driving around the other "idiots" on the road that are texting and talking and swerving into my lane. I hate the people that have to sit right next to me at a restaurant when the whole place is empty but them and myself. I hate stupid people that act with no regard to anyone else, i.e. selfish people. I largely see the world around me as a bunch of idiots that I can't stand. Obviously I don't think that I know everything, or I wouldn't be here reaching out, but it is part of who I am, even though it hurts me greatly in life.

*I like to work. When I work I know what I have to do and I can excel at it. It occupies my time without me having to figure out something else to do, at times elicits some praise for a job well done, etc.

*I see things as very black and white, with little middle ground, related to my expectations mentioned above. I'm extremely conscientious about how I act around others and I have a lot of anxiety about how others perceive me. It then irritates me when others don't seem to put their best foot forward and instead trample on mine.

*I have two small businesses with no employees, because I simply don't trust anyone to do the job like I would do it. My wife and I have worked together for years, and I still don't trust her to do a good job. I can find mistakes in her work without even trying, something that obviously is not good for us.

*I'm a very negative person. More specifically, I see the negatives in other people without even trying. They jump out at me right off the bat, in many cases. I obviously have the ability to be optimistic, otherwise I wouldn't keep trying to better myself and my life, so my life-view isn't necessarily one of negativity. However, it is my view of other people around me that is so negative. I truly wish it wasn't that way. It hurts me when my wife and I can go somewhere with other people and she had a great time and really liked them and I thought they were imbeciles and crude people. I don't want to be this way. It is very isolating. At the same time, it takes so much mental energy to be "on" for social situations due to my ADHD that it becomes very tiring. Maybe I'm compensating in some way, as if the exhaustion from being "on" for so long is something that makes me more negative, kind of like how a person in pain will often have a short temper.

*My moods seem to go in some sort of cycles. Up and down, up and down, often associated with ADHD but could be something else. My younger brother is very isolationist. I sometimes wonder if I should have stayed single, yet at the same time I can't imagine life without my wife. I crave social activity, yet hate it at the same time. Yet another part of the conundrum that is my life. So many conflicts within, and so many in my life. I'm tired of living a life of mental instability, and it doesn't help that my wife has her own issues as well. Honestly, I believe that most people have a plethora of disorders, but live a life of denial or just ignorance. My mom is bipolar, my dad depressed and probably other things including ADHD, both of my brothers depressed and probably one bipolar. My wife's family is ADHD, bipolar, depressed, etc. I've been surrounded by this all of my life, but then again, maybe everyone is just with different circumstances and the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

I'm not miserly with money, as indicated in the DSM for OCPD. If anything, I'm the opposite and spend too freely, but that impulsiveness often comes with ADHD. I'm not obsessive about lists or order necessarily, though I am perfectionistic in many ways. I'm a big picture thinker that doesn't often get lost in the details. In fact, details can irritate me, as I can be quite impatient, again something that often relates to ADHD.

So, what say ye? Is this a place that I might fit in? Does my life and experience resonate with anyone else? Finding out about ADHD and the forums for it that I've been a member of for a couple of years really helped give me understanding of my own life. Now I'm looking for somewhere that I fit in for some specific things that really impact my life negatively that cannot be packaged with my ADHD as neatly as I'd like. The biggest issue in my life is the way that I view myself in comparison with others that I meet in day to day life, other people that frankly I find inconsiderate and lacking in common sense and general intelligence. I don't want to come across as arrogant, but the reality is that although I don't necessarily think of myself as great, I'm appalled by the deficiencies of others. Perhaps that's perfectionism, perhaps some sort of narcissism, OCPD, I just don't know and I want to find out and find others like me.

Thanks for your time. Please don't be offended or think that I look down on those that are here, but I have to tell how I feel even if it isn't flattering, and it certainly doesn't make me look good either. I have a problem, and I'm reaching out for some understanding in order to better my life. I took some personality tests for disorders online, and pretty much fit in most categories, though this one showed up kind of high along with a few others in particular.

Sorry for the long post. Have a great weekend!
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby realitycheque » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:45 pm

It's possible to have multiple groups of disorder traits. Here's some good info to help you get a handle on what may be going on. I think this psychiatrist is on the leading edge of mapping brain areas' activity and linking it to disorders, and providing rifled suggestions on treating specific combinations of problems (meds, supplements, diet, exercise, spirituality/meditation, CBT, etc).

Rate yourself with this checklist, and determine a relative comparison of potential problems in certain brain regions:
http://ocpd.freeforums.org/post4993.html#p4993
Guess which area is associated with ADHD and which ones are with OCPD?

Then see what high-scoring areas are associated with what brain regions and the disorders linked to dysfunction in those regions:
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/spect-image-gallery/spect-atlas/images-of-functional-neuroanatomy/
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/cool-brain-science/a-crash-course-in-neuroscience/prefrontal-cortex/
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/cool-brain-science/a-crash-course-in-neuroscience/cingulate-gyrus/
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/cool-brain-science/a-crash-course-in-neuroscience/basal-ganglia-system/
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/cool-brain-science/a-crash-course-in-neuroscience/limbic-system/
http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/cool-brain-science/a-crash-course-in-neuroscience/temporal-lobes/
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby whoyouthink » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:38 am

Hey RC, thanks for posting that. I'm familiar to some extent with Dr. Amen, as he's involved in a lot of study with ADHD. Those links that you provided were extremely interesting. I can say that I pretty much run the gamut, and can identify with so much there. It is safe to say that I have problems with just about every area of the brain mentioned. To be honest, I that if I try to treat one area then another will be agitated. I tic, have ADHD with what Amen called overfocus thus putting me right up to the OCD threshold as well, was raised with a lot of perfectionistic cognitive distortions, face depression in my down cycles, have a tremendous amount of anxiety that seems to get worse with age, etc. So, at this point it is what it is, I guess.
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby realitycheque » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:00 pm

From what I've read in his book "Healing the Hardware of the Soul" (which I frequently use as a reference for kin problems), the balance of dopamine needed for ADHD and serotonin for OCD/OCPD is difficult to manage because those neurotransmitters compete for proteins for their synthesis, and high carbohydrate diets (better for OC traits) counteract the high protein diets needed for ADD/ADHD. Perhaps CBT and meditation can be used to treat your anxiety, depression, and negativity while meds/supplements/diet can help the ADHD. Or vice versa. Rigorous exercise helps both. And Dr. Amen does describe a case where a targeted tandem of meds help the ADD/OCD combo, but I can't locate it quickly. You might want the book ($15) to read through the case studies.

I think that perfectionism and negativity can be helped a lot by CBT. You're apparently already familiar with Cognitive Distortions (Amen calls them Automatic Negative Thoughts), so when you recognize them happening you can untwist them (http://ocpd.freeforums.org/cognitive-distortions-checklist-ways-to-untwist-thinking-t74.html), which is the essence of CBT.
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby whoyouthink » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:17 am

I've found that proper sleep and exercise (must be intense and very challenging) can both really help with my mood, to stave off depression, and they help me focus better. However, with ADHD it is very hard for me to get in a sleep routine, as I tend to get sidetracked with projects or not be able to maintain motivation and/or focus to get to sleep. Motivation, or lack thereof, can play part in my exercise as well, particularly because I work physically all day and then have low energy when it comes time to exercise. Actually, most ADHDers are of the "combined" type, and the reality is that I often lean toward the inattentive side even though I'm overfocused (which is the opposite) strictly in the low energy levels. Inattentives tend to by hypoactive rather than hyperactive. I do really like the effects, in the moment, of both exercise and sleep. Consistency has been a mere dream to this point though.

I have worked on myself to try to untwist my cognitive distortions. It too becomes a constant battle because my ADHD tendencies lead me to a lack of focus, which in turn leads me to get involved with the next thing instead of continuing to help alter my perception with CBT type methods.

Sometimes I'd like to get off the rollercoaster. Fighting all of these conflicting things inside my head really wears me down. At one point my life consisted almost solely of what I called "putting out fires", running from one problem to the next, never getting anything fixed, just putting it out to go chase down another. I've gotten a lot more control of things over the years. I was hoping that by learning of these personality disorders (I've looked into many of them) I might unlock some more keys to further bettering my life.

For what it's worth, and I'm not sure what that is exactly, I've taken some personality tests online and seem to rank high to very high in the categories of paranoid, schizotypal, borderline, narcissistic, avoidant, and obsessive compulsive. That's quite the combo. :(
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby whoyouthink » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:26 am

realitycheque wrote:From what I've read in his book "Healing the Hardware of the Soul" (which I frequently use as a reference for kin problems), the balance of dopamine needed for ADHD and serotonin for OCD/OCPD is difficult to manage because those neurotransmitters compete for proteins for their synthesis, and high carbohydrate diets (better for OC traits) counteract the high protein diets needed for ADD/ADHD.


Hmmm.....I recently started feeling much more "on edge", including a much more aggressive expression of frustration, anxiety, and negativity. Coincidentally, I also started watching what I eat and counting calories to lose weight. In doing so, naturally I've really cut back on carbs. In fact, I always knew that in some way I was probably medicating by eating a ton of carbs. I loved to eat tons of Italian food, candy, breads, etc. Now that I've cut back tremendously, as I track them daily along with my caloric intake and vitamins and such, my mood has gotten much edgier. Very interesting. I don't know for sure that there is a connection, but it makes sense, and both started about the same time. Thanks for saying what you did; it really gives me something to consider.
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Re: Well, I seem to fit here to some extent, so......

Postby realitycheque » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:58 pm

whoyouthink wrote:I don't know for sure that there is a connection, but it makes sense, and both started about the same time.

Dr. Daniel Amen (paraphrased) wrote:There are two ways that food can increase serotonin levels. Carbohydrate-containing foods such as pasta, potatoes, bread, pastries, pretzels, candy (sugar), and popcorn increase L-tryptophan levels (the natural amino acid building block for serotonin) in the blood, where it is converted to serotonin. The calming effect of serotonin can often be felt in 30 minutes or less by eating these foods. Cerebral serotonin levels can also be raised by eating foods rich in tryptophan such as chicken, turkey, salmon, beef, peanut butter, eggs, green peas, potatoes, and milk.

But remember, higher carb intake will tend to make the ADHD lack of focus worse. Tricky balancing act.
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