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The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby margharris » Tue May 15, 2012 11:50 pm

This morning I was very sad to read Storm was back with vengeance. I know Longtime had been hopeful her mother would be able to hear her apology and go and get the help she needed to get over all this mess of the past. I think we all were hopeful. Longtime was truly sorry and did want a relationship with a loving mother.
From the missile of abuse you have sent, it is obvious that your children need to stay right away from you. You are still a very long way from healing.
I did caution LT to recognize her mother might be in the grips of such a dominant obsession that it will be difficult for her to overcome.

All I can say to Storm is you need help to see what all of us clearly see. You need help with this. What you say are not the words of a loving mother. I sense you did try to stop the obsessive thoughts but they came back and so you were compelled to write it all out. All the thoughts you usually have come from a logical area of the brain where reason, balance and control live. These obsessive thoughts don't come from that place at all. They come from a place where unreasonable, unbalanced and out of control lives. They are addictive obsessive thoughts that compel you to do something about them. So you keep writing. You're hooked on this behaviour because you get an adrenalin rush and that adrenalin makes you feel more powerful. But like all addictive obsessions, you never escape. The good feeling your meltdown gave you will not last and you will be back needing to obsess. The thoughts will come back. That is probably all you do all day. The problem is you don't recognize them as obsessive thoughts. You hear the thoughts and give them credit as your true thoughts that must be true. So you try and prove that they are true.

OK so I am going to treat you like you are an obsessive who is without logic. All you want to hear is what a swine your daughter is. So lets go and yell about her for years. Tell us when you ever will be done. You and I know you never will be done. You need this obsession because you wouldn't want to own yourself without it. You need the rage to feel strong and in control. But raging isn't strong. It is out of control. How you can stop the obsession I am not quite sure. My field is OCD really but I will look into it.
All the best really Marg
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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby Walkthroughthestorm » Wed May 16, 2012 4:23 am

Can Envy be ‘Healthy’?

Wikipedia defines envy as: an emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another’s superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."

Many people at time feel envious. Spiritually, the emotion of envy can be turned to gratitude with the knowing that What I bless in another I bless in myself. However, envy in our society is commonplace and if this painful emotion is used as a stimulus to direct energy into self, it can be productive.

If envy is owned and discussed honestly, this emotion can provide a catalyst for transformation to improve self and a relationship.

The Pain of Pathological Envy

Pathological envy is extremely painful for the individual with the emotional insecurity and devastating for the love recipient. It isn’t as obvious as pathological jealousy, and can be insidious and more difficult to define.

Dr. Sam Vaknin, an expert on narcissism describes pathological envy as “…a compounded emotion. It is brought on by the realisation of some lack, deficiency, or inadequacy in oneself. It is the result of unfavourably comparing oneself to other - to their success, their reputation, their possessions, their luck, and their qualities. It is misery and humiliation and impotent rage and a torturous, slippery path to nowhere. The effort to break the padded walls of this self-visited purgatory often leads to attacks on the perceived source of frustration.”

Unfortunately, abusive relationships have a very common element: highly competitive power struggles. Generally, the abuser tries to take energy and power by force (with little respect for personal boundaries) and the abused tries to take back their rights from the abuser.

If you’re in a relationship with an individual who displays narcissistic characteristics, the relationship will feel like a ‘me versus you’ battle with an enemy. A large source of this dynamic is pathological envy. Pathological envy is a very intense and destructive emotion, born from deep emotional insecurities and poor sense of self-worth.

The majority of highly destructive and tragic relationships have the poison of pathological jealousy and pathological envy running through them. If you’re subject to pathological abuse, you will experience many symptoms of abuse.

If you have the poison of pathological jealousy or envy in your relationship, be very clear that nothing is going to change until you address the issues, and the issues are: why are you trying to fix a pathological partner? There’s a grave need to find out how to work on yourself to re-define the truth of your life and how you deserve to be treated.

If you know you are acting in ways that are pathologically jealous and envious - take ownership, and stop blaming other people for the way you feel. This is an essential first step toward recovery and having a possibility of a loving, fulfilling relationship. It’s impossible for a partner to continually grant you the ability to feel safe. It’s a bottomless pit. Work on your own self-acceptance, identity and ways to feel emotionally secure, and start discussing your issues honestly and get help. There are ways that you can get support and heal …
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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby Walkthroughthestorm » Wed May 16, 2012 4:55 am

"margharris"]This morning I was very sad to read Storm was back with vengeance. I know Longtime had been hopeful her mother would be able to hear her apology and go and get the help she needed to get over all this mess of the past. I think we all were hopeful. Longtime was truly sorry and did want a relationship with a loving mother.
From the missile of abuse you have sent, it is obvious that your children need to stay right away from you. You are still a very long way from healing.


Mother heard the daughter's apology.
This Mother today understands that the issue is ENVY.
The ENVY needs to be acknowledged and dealt with especially since I ended up being that Object which needed to be destroyed. I'm not crazy enough to stand in the path of an oncoming train second time around. I barely survived the last train to destruction.
Sorry, I won't allow myself to live in the shadow of this destructive and evil force. You want to live under the shadow of someone's envy, go right ahead. Once was enough for me.

Destroying the Frustrating Object

Other narcissists "choose" to destroy the object that gives them so much grief by provoking in them feelings of inadequacy and frustration. They display obsessive, blind animosity and engage in a compulsive acts of rivalry often at the cost of self-destruction and self-isolation.

"This hydra has many heads. From scratching the paint of new cars and flattening their tyres, to spreading vicious gossip, to media-hyped arrests of successful and rich businessmen, to wars against advantaged neighbours.

The stifling, condensed vapours of envy cannot be dispersed.

They invade their victims, their rageful eyes, their calculating souls, they guide their hands in evil doings and dip their tongues in vitriol...

(The envious narcissist's existence is) a constant hiss, a tangible malice, the piercing of a thousand eyes. The imminence and immanence of violence.

The poisoned joy of depriving the other of that which you don't or cannot have."

That pretty much sums it up. It was a wonderful relationship. I was so admired that I had to be destroyed and made to suffer. Thanks but I'll pass.

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby Walkthroughthestorm » Wed May 16, 2012 6:07 am

"margharris"]

All I can say to Storm is you need help to see what all of us clearly see. Marg


Marg, your advice is not very good. I hope you're not in the counseling profession.

You can't fix a relationship without addressing the underlying problem.
It's like telling a woman to go back to her alcoholic husband who beats her (only when he gets drunk) just because he apologized. Bad advice Marg.

My advice to the woman would be: stay away from your alcoholic husband until he crawls out of denial and begins AA in ernest.

And my reply to all of those who see clearly is: look past your noses and you might discover that all of you need glasses for short sightedness.

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby margharris » Wed May 16, 2012 7:07 am

Have you finished with all the envy stuff? Because I think you will find you got a high out of it. But the high will be short lived and you will be back to doing it again. You just can't stop it. Can you?
Does it start with a thought? The thought might be, " How dare she do this to me." It sort of springs from no where and then before you know it you have been obsessing half the day away and the only way to stop the thoughts is to write it down. That is what you are doing here. Trying to get release from the thoughts.

So I will explain about obsessive thoughts.
Obsessive thoughts are biochemically generated mental events that seem to resemble one's own real thoughts, but they aren't. Studies in thought suppression have shown that the more you try to not think about something, the more you will end up thinking about it paradoxically. Because those thoughts seem real, you think they are right and justified. You think they require you to act upon them like all other thoughts you have. But these thoughts aren't being created from that logic centre. They are linked to an anxiety centre. The thoughts make you anxious and you fear you have been exploited. You are compelled to try and neutralize the fear by proving you are right and so you post here with all your thoughts.It is like it is the only way you know to process the thought from your head. But the compulsion is only a temporary fix and tomorrow the thought returns. Am I right? What is the thought that comes?

As soon as the thought comes you need to totally agree with the thought. Don't let it turn the key to righteous indignation. I was exploited .So be it. She was envious. So be it.
Tomorrow you will need to download more because you don't know a way to just stay with the thought. Thats because the thought causes you so much anxiety. You have to neutralize it with a compulsion just to get to feeling some peace. It shouldn't be like this. You probably know all about the meds you might take to help with this. You will need a lot of help to get over this.

It would be unreasonable for us to think you can stop this. You just can't. So when it gets too much and you cant hold in the thoughts. You will need to write out something. You are really dealing with a beast of an obsession. It is an ugly one and it has a firm hold over you.

We are all trying hard to help you. You will recognize that one day. Hopefully tomorrow.
All the best Marg
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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby funky » Wed May 16, 2012 9:11 am

Marg, if you don't mind me butting in here, (I've got ocd, as you know), the problem with an obsessive thought is that the person having it might realise that it is obsessesive and harmful, but she may think, "Nevertheless, I'm right." (As you said.)

For Walkthrough, the solution that she seeks to her obsessive thought involves what she believes to be the correct input from her daughter. Perhaps, as you and others have suggested, she needs to realise that that will not happen, and she can only come to terms with what has happened on her own. (Or rather, with the help of a therapist.)

And, yes, medication can reduce the underlying anxiety greatly, and make therapy more effective.

So, to Walkthrough, perhaps you could then consider coming to terms with what has happened, without the involvement of your daughter, and without the outcome that you believe is the only one possible to ease your mind? You've been given good advice by Marg and others.
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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby MissAli » Wed May 16, 2012 1:48 pm

I believe, that through some of my research last night, and continued this morning, to try to nail down Walk's delusional thought patterns in reference to her martyrdom, that I perhaps may have put my finger on this neverending pistol of hers. Let me know what you guys think?

Morbid jealousy (also known as Othello Syndrome or Delusional jealousy) is a psychiatric disorder in which a person holds a strong delusional belief that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful without having any, very little, or insignificant proof to back up their claim.

- Walk thinks that her daughter is "cheating" her, as she will accept no apology, she wants her to grovel at her feet and be continually whipped for her adolescent lashing out.

Definition
This disorder occurs when a person typically makes repeated accusations that their spouse or sexual partner is being unfaithful, based on insignificant, minimal, or no evidence, often citing seemingly normal or everyday events or material to back up their claims.

Unlike other delusional disorders, people who suffer from this disorder have a strong association with [b]stalking, cyberstalking, sabotage, or even violence. It can be found in the context of schizophrenia and delusional disorder, such as bipolar disorder, but is also associated with alcoholism and sexual dysfunction and has been reported after neurological illness.


- I don't think I need to make any pointed associations here. They've been beat to death by Walk herself.


Psychiatric History
Presenting difficulties: neurotic or psychotic jealousy
Past psychiatric history: neurotic or psychotic disorders, deliberate self-harm and attempted suicide
Family history: mental illness including pathological jealousy
Relationship history: incorporating both the current and previous relationship and taking account of the quality of the relationships and the difficulties experienced
Forensic history: previous and pending charges and convictions as well as deviant behavior which was not reported or did not result in a charge or conviction (including aggressive behavior and stalking)
Medical history: organic causes which may be responsible for the morbid jealousy.


- Walk's mother was institutionalized. She is incredibly jealous of her daughter's ability to move on and be prosperous in her life, leaving her in the dust. Let's not forget the constant stalking. Which is why she is still ruminating[/u].


Causes

Psychological-There are many psychological causes that go along with morbid jealousy. Some people equate morbid jealousy with a delusional state. “Delusions of infidelity exist without any other psychopathology and may be considered to be morbid jealousy in its ‘purest’ form” (Kingham and Gordon). For morbid jealousy to occur one’s memories are subconsciously changed and their partner’s actions are misinterpreted as well to the extent that the person is absolutely convinced of betrayal from the partner. It is thought that even some brain disorders might eventually lead to delusions of betrayal. It has also been recorded by Cobb (1979) “that morbid jealousy may be present with all types of cerebral insult or injury."

Personality-People who are very insecure or even fearful are more likely to become anxious or question their partner’s commitment to them. “Insecure attachment style correlates strongly with borderline personality organization” (Kingham and Gordon).

Environmental-Some people even believe that someone who is morbidly jealous might suspect that he or she is being drugged or given some kind of substance that might decrease their sexual potency, or they might even be under the impression that their significant other has somehow received a sexually transmitted disease from another person while the subject is unaware.

FormsDelusions-are individuals own thought, egosyntonic, regarded as true, and not resisted. Some authors compare morbid jealousy to a delusional state (e.g. Enoch & Trethowan, 1979). Beliefs may include the morbidly jealous subjects' suspicion that: He or she is being poisoned or given some substance(s) to decrease sexual potency by the partner. That the partner has contracted a sexually transmitted disease from a third party. Lastly is engaging in sexual intercourse with a third party while the subject sleeps.

Obsessions- are individuals own thought, egodystonic, acknowledged to be senseless, and usually resisted. Jealous thoughts are experienced as intrusive and excessive, and compulsive behaviors such as checking up on their partner may follow. Egodystonicity, the distress caused by thoughts that are unwanted and viewed as contrary to conscious wishes) generally varies a large amount between patients and “a continuum from obsessional to delusional, which morbid jealousy has been suggested” (Insel & Akiskal 1986).
[i]
Extreme Obsessions- they are time taken up by jealous concerns, difficulty in putting the concerns out of the mind, impairment of the relationship, limitation of the partners freedom, and checking on the partners behavior. The obsessional disorder at the core of morbid jealousy to be a ‘true rarity’. Although a distinction was occasionally difficult to make, the categories of ‘psychotic’ (delusional) and ‘neurotic’ jealousy contained similar proportions (each between one-third and one-half).[2]


- I'm not sure that I even need to say anything here.


Triggers

For men the strongest trigger is sexual infidelity and with women the strongest trigger is emotional infidelity. If partner related violence does not stop infidelity from happening the male mate will sometimes resort to suicide instead. The final resort to stopping infidelity inside of morbid jealousy is to commit partner murder. Women are much less likely to kill their partner, unless it is in self-defense. Morbid jealousy can occur in a number of conditions such as chronic alcoholism, addiction to substances other than alcohol i.e. morphine, cocaine, amphetamines. Organic brain disorders i.e. Parkinson's, Huntington's. Also with schizophrenia, neurosis, affective disturbances or personality disorders.


- Again, no need to point out the obvious.


Diagnosis

Mullen (1990) considered morbid jealousy to be associated with four features:

1. An under-lying mental disorder emerges before or with the jealousy
2. The features of the underlying disorder coexist with the jealousy
3. The course of morbid jealousy closely relates to that of the underlying disorder
4. The jealousy has no basis in reality


In Morbid jealousy, the overall basis of the psychopathological experience is the preoccupation with a partner’s sexual infidelity. The most common cited forms of psychopathology in morbid jealousy are delusions and obsessions.




WalkThroughTheStorm - if you are interested in reading more on this condition, and [u]how it relates to you, please feel free to read the entire article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_jealousy


It appears to me you're good at copying and pasting the Wikipedia articles. I thought this may be a better way to reach you, since this appears to be aligned with your current communication styles.


AMP
Knowing other people is intelligence, knowing yourself is wisdom.

Mastering other people is strength, mastering yourself is power.

If you realize that what you have is enough, you will be rich, truly rich.

~Tao

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby Walkthroughthestorm » Wed May 16, 2012 4:13 pm

Destroying the Frustrating Object

Other narcissists "choose" to destroy the object that gives them so much grief by provoking in them feelings of inadequacy and frustration. They display obsessive, blind animosity and engage in a compulsive acts of rivalry [u]often at the cost of self-destruction[/u] and self-isolation.

"This hydra has many heads. From scratching the paint of new cars and flattening their tyres, [u]to spreading vicious gossip[/u], to media-hyped arrests of successful and rich businessmen, to wars against advantaged neighbours.

The stifling, condensed vapours of envy cannot be dispersed.

They invade their victims, their rageful eyes, their calculating souls, they guide their hands in evil doings and dip their tongues in vitriol...

(The envious narcissist's existence is) a constant hiss, a tangible malice, the piercing of a thousand eyes. The imminence and immanence of violence.

The poisoned joy of depriving the other of that which you don't or cannot have."


............... The poisoned joy of depriving the other.

And how many of you would embrace a relationship, open your home, your heart, and place your trust in, if you knew 100% that the "other" harbored destructive feelings of passive aggressive pathological envy toward you, undermined you and derived poisoned joy from depriving you of happiness, and the necessities of life ?

The Lords Prayer starts with "Otche Nash" meaning "Our Father" and ends with "spaci nas vid lukavoho" meaning "Save us, Protect us from the Envious one". AMEN.

"I knoweth what I am doing".

Anyone who's been to hell and back compliments of the "Envious One" is not likely to walk around with a sign on their forehead that reads: "Mark" Envious Ones welcome here.

Some people never learn from their painful experiences. I'm a fast learner.

It's not the victim of the Envious one that needs to change, it's the Envious one that needs to find healing. Healing is NOT going to come with an apology BUT:

Before you can "Fix" something, you need to acknowledge that there's a part of your life that's broken and DENIAL usually prevents this from happening.

I'm willing to work with the Envious One but if the Envious one doesn't acknowledge that she has a problem and is NOT open and willing to work with me on the problem that brought us to this ugly and painful end, then ........... there's not much I or anyone can do .... is there ?

Instead of the APOLOGY BUT: I'd rather hear Mama I'm willing to do what ever it takes to repair the relationship. This is where the journey has to begin.

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby Walkthroughthestorm » Wed May 16, 2012 5:03 pm

funky wrote:
So, to Walkthrough, perhaps you could then consider coming to terms with what has happened, without the involvement of your daughter, and without the outcome that you believe is the only one possible to ease your mind? You've been given good advice by Marg and others.


funky, I've come to terms with it.

If you have the poison of pathological jealousy or envy in your relationship, be very clear that nothing is going to change until you address the ISSUES, and the issues are: why are you trying to fix a pathological partner? There’s a grave need to find out how to work on yourself [u]to re-define the truth of your life and how you deserve to be treated[/u].

I know how I want to be treated and know how I deserve to be treated.
I'm trying to "fix" a pathological partner because she's my daughter. She means a lot to me.
If she were a drug addict, an alcoholic I wouldn't be abandoning her either but struggling against the tide.

Anyone else, I would close the door and they wouldn't deserve even a note from me.

The only threesome relationship I want and will accept is Mother >God< Daughter.

Mother >ENVY< Daughter doesn't work for me.
Neither does Mother >Elephant in the Room< Daughter.

I know who I am and I know what I want. That's what I want in a relationship, especially in a relationship with a daughter. I know I might have to wait but I'm not budging from this position. This is the path we need to take. The ONLY path.

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Re: The Official "Walkthroughthestorm" Thread

Postby MissAli » Wed May 16, 2012 5:05 pm

When did your daughter's life become all about kissing your ass?

If I were her, I would totally have scoffed at the last 3 posts you have put up, and put a bag of popcorn in the microwave to enjoy.

You live in a delusional world, and unfortunately, your narrow approach and scope of the real world, are very far from the real world in which everyone else resides.

I hope that LongTimeComing enjoys her life with her husband, enjoys a fabulous relationship with her brothers, and nieces/nephews.

Because obviously, even an apology from 14 years ago doesn't cure your "poor, poor me" attitude, and you deserve to pout left to your own device.

Which, unfortunately, only seems to be.... here.



AMP
Knowing other people is intelligence, knowing yourself is wisdom.

Mastering other people is strength, mastering yourself is power.

If you realize that what you have is enough, you will be rich, truly rich.

~Tao

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