My Narc Ex hates me

by **anagram** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:32 pm

Pieces wrote:I'm agreeing with the advice I'm getting because it makes sense! I don't agree with him otherwise I wouldn't be in this situation and we wouldn't constantly fight!
And there wasn't any apologies.

Now that's more like it :mrgreen:

awakenow wrote:
Pieces wrote:I understand that. All of his relationships haven't lasted more than a month to 3 months tops. He was with me for a year. He just uses up all his resources then skates away. I;m sure he feels pain, he is a person, but he replaces the pain and loss with new people, new faces, and whatever else excites him at the time. Here's a little backstory. When him and I met 4 years ago, I was instantly attarcted, but I was in a relationship and since he was temptation I stayed away from him. We ended up running into each other last year and were together ever since. 3days later he blew the motor in his car and had surgery on both his feet. This out him in a wheelchair for 6 weeks, unable to work and stuff. Keep in mind we're 25 years old. I basically feel that he was cold, callous, and ungrateful for living with me, not working, not having a car or anything, I got him a job, let him drive my car like it was his own and helped him as much as I could and he says I don't deserve respect because I haven;t done anything to earn it while he says he has done everything for me. In all reality I would sleep next to him. He has these thoughts in his head like I'm a monster or have done something to him. I have never called him any names or said any mean things o him after the break up or even before for that matter. He's calling me every name under the sun but says I'm the aggressor. I'm glad I've stumbled onto this site after talking to a doc because I've been causing so much damage to myself trying to figure it all out. It has really hit my self-worth my self-esteem, everything. And I'm enjoying the advice you guys are providing because this is the first relationship I've ever had with a narc. Thank you, especially for listening

This is sad. You question him saying you didn't earn respect based on a list of you doing things for him. I'm sorry, but if you were doing all of these things for him when by your own admission he was lying and cruel at times from month two, does that actually deserve respect? Also, being 'nice' to someone doesn't mean you've earned respect. On the contrary, it means you may think you're owed some gratitude, but respect? No. I don't know if you did deserve respect, but nothing you've written here says that you did.

Sven is correct in his posts, but I disagree that you can't understand this man. You can, but you need to let go of all of the 'he did this, and this, and this' and start accepting he is a narc so all of his actions are just noise. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to analyze where it all went wrong, because that happened somewhere in his childhood well before you met him.

I'm going to put this out there again:

You knew he was a liar, you knew he called you every name in the book and somehow blamed you for everything. You knew deep inside he was an ass to you and yet you continued to do things for him. You probably even questioned why you were doing them when you did them, but you did them anyway. You thought it would 'make him happy'.

I'd say you weren't as interested in him being happy as you claim or even believe. I'd say you were interested in appeasing him to avoid his rath or coldness, whichever might rear it's ugly head. I'd say you were hoping your good deeds would bring out Mr. Wonderful.

Also, don't look at any of his angry tirades as proof that he cared. You might think "Well he wouldn't have gotten so upset if he didn't care about us, right?" WRONG. His tirade was his way of dismissing you for asking him for anything, or for calling him out on his actions, or both. If you accused him of wrongdoing, you were saying he wasn't perfect and his ego can't have that. You can't expose that shamed inner person, no matter what, and him admitting he was wrong about something would be to cause him to feel shame, and he won't have it. You'll pay a dear price for that.

You also can't ask for support or real caring because it isn't possible. Yes, Mr. Wonderful professed he'd steal the moon to make you happy, but in reality he wouldn't look at it if he didn't feel like it. He said that so you'd swoon and be back for more, allowing HIM to get more. So, if you're upset about something, you won't get support, you'll get "You should just do X,Y,Z." and later "I told you that was going to happen" even if that isn't what he said. In his mind he'll twist it so that it is what he told you would happen. Don't bother arguing, because you'll be saying he was wrong, and it won't end well.

Knowing he'll do it to more people so don't feel so bad isn't much of a uplifter, is it? Right now you only care that he did it to you and you hurt. Later that will matter more, but now it's not much. What it says is that this isn't you, so don't beat yourself up.

All the little digs he threw at you weren't real, they were him knocking you down a peg so you didn't feel strong enough to tell him what a jerk he was. You'd start to feel like you weren't that great so you'll put up with the lies and abuse. All the times he told you girls were checking him out? Most likely these were lies designed to make you feel lucky to have him. Probably didn't happen around you that much but strangly when he was alone he was practically raped by every woman he encountered. More lies geared toward the 'master plan'.

Try acting like him. When you start to feel bad, remember that YOU felt great when he was Mr. Wonderful. You did get something out of this, so accept that and move on. Don't accept the bad things he said. He didn't accept the negatives you said to him, right? So just shut down, tell yourself you got to hear how special you were (which is what you wanted) and that you should have left sooner. Seriously, turn cold to it. That's really all you can do. Trying to force your thought process on him, as Sven said, will drive you almost as nuts as his blaming you for his actions.

You do hold some power in this. You control your mind. You don't need to let this define you for a moment longer than you want. If you feel down, find some songs that will make you feel better. Try angry ones about liars, not love songs about lost love.

When he calls you to meet or for any other reason, tell him you're busy. Don't be mean about it because it will end with him calling you names. Be nice - smile when you say it - but say it. Tell him you're really sorry but you can't do blah blah blah. Don't stay on the phone too long either, and YOU be the one to say you need to hang up. If he asks you for a favor, politely say no, that you would if you could, but you can't. Just let him know he isn't #1 anymore, but DO IT NICELY. Do this every time he calls. If you say you'll call him back, don't. Tell him you forgot.

Sure, this will be difficult, but you know what happens when you once again appease him. You can get rid of a narc without the drama you see written about here, but the standard "NO CONTACT" usually ends up with the narc seeking revenge. If you are nice and act as if you simply can't due to prior engagements, illness, whatever, he'll find someone else in the interim and (usually) quietly go away. In his head it will be him that ended contact, but so what? You got what you wanted.

You are dealing with a very skilled manipulative liar with a cold heart and deep mean streak. You should start thinking in this manner. Being an honest person will get you destroyed. Most people take pride in speaking their mind and sharing their thoughts. Doing so with a narc is like handing him a loaded gun - you're telling him how to hurt you. Stop doing that. Don't believe me? Tell him something you feel bad about - your hair, your legs, your mother isn't being nice to you and it's been going on for months, anything. But make it up. That's right, tell him in a sincere way something you're insecure about. Do it in a non-obvious way. The next time he rages you'll hear about it.

Of course, if you follow my previous advice of getting rid of him you won't need to do this, but if not give it a try. It'll be very eye opening. Until now he's used real things so you haven't been able to step back and realize how awful what he does is because you're stunned and hurt. This time it'll be your own joke on him. You'll see first hand what kind of person you're dealing with.

Sven is correct - it isn't about you - except it is to you. The best thing would be to accept what he is, shrug and move on having learned from this experience. The fact that you're here looking for advice despite knowing he's a narc says you aren't going that route. You're looking to rationalize what happened and get it to fit into your world. You know logically that he doesn't care because he can't, but you still want to learn more. It's emotional, and it's about you. You want it to make sense. It's normal but when it's all said and done you'll be in the same place as if you'd shrugged your shoulders and moved on.

Think of someone in history you and the world consider 'great'. Ghandi, Mother Teresa, whomever. Just pick someone that is admired as a great human. Now compare that to your narc. No matter how much he's convinced others he is a great person, he isn't. He's convinced people through lies and trickery. Great people don't rage over being told they did something wrong. Great people don't blame others for their misdoings. Great people don't take advantage of others. They don't steal cars under the guise of buying apples and get angry when asked where the apples are.

Your narc isn't great and you're only losing a liar that will never be anything else. It hurts that you tried so hard and this is what's happening, but cut your losses. You didn't fail because you didn't know the rules when you started playing and when you learned the rules he changed them. You can't save him, and that high you get from the fleeting moments of Mr. Wonderful is based on lies. Knowing this, why bother overthinking it? Stop asking why you couldn't get through to him, or what you could have done differently.

Most narcs eventually find someone that 'feeds' them for a long time. They don't end up old and alone. For this narc, you aren't this person. Be thankful for that. You went through this madness for a year. Others go through it for decades. Think of what might have been and be very grateful he found flaws in you quickly.

Excellent advice. I was looking to find a flaw in it <well.. I am a narc>, but everything seems completely accurate.

I don't think there is much more anyone can really say on the topic. How she proceeds with this information, is her choice.

by **svenska500** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:49 pm

Pieces wrote:I want to clarify with the lying, only one incident happened in the beng started after the first break up. Funny thing was that I was miserable, always having the feeling that I could be replaced...

I don't think it has hit you yet. Everything was a lie. Your entire relationship was a lie. You are essentially saying that someone that lied about everything, who they were, what they did and everything else about them.. was caught lying about one thing. Doesn't make much sense, does it.

Did you ever notice how strange personalities came out of nowhere sometimes.. around other people..? Like.. "who is this person"? Well, it's because he made sure you only saw the person you wanted to see. He became a complete and total lie of what he knew you desired. Yet.. he is human and I am sure he cracked once in awhile. If you had called him on this, it would have sent him into a rage, with the end result, blaming you for something. Just think back to all those odd times where you saw someone that you didn't even know in him.. Everything.. was a lie.. to everyone.

Personally I do not want to even respond nor answer the phone if he ever does call or text. I don't want to risk the chance of falling for the game that he's made up.

You say that now. But it won't be easy, as the days go by and you start missing him. The only thing you can do is keep busy to keep your mind off him. The emotional mind is not always something that is easily controlled by just saying "I'm done". You will have to be strong and vigilant in your conviction to stay away.. as he will test you and tempt you at every chance he has, with every little bit of knowledge he has on you.

Just think of him laughing at how pathetic you are for believing him on the other end of the phone, as he says these things to you. That may help you fight off the urge to convene with him. And the reality is, it is true.. if you respond to him in a manner that shows you still desire him.. even after telling him you never want to see him again.. if you do this.. it will simply reaffirm his thoughts.. "They always come back to me. I'm wonderful." And then he will dismiss and dump you like he has before.. while thinking about how amazing he is, that everyone always comes back to him. Because.. well.. he is amazing. You told him so. Right?

And one last thing. Stop referring to his actions as a game. This is his identity. This is all he knows. You refer to it as a game, because you feel he has/is manipulating you. He isn't intentionally manipulating or playing games with you.

Every single action is him simply doing what he always has done in the past, present and future with every single interaction with every human being in his entire life. Games are utilized to manipulate another for a short time period for a desired result. His actions that you call a game are his entire existence.

He isn't thinking about it, as a manipulator would. He isn't planning something to you or against you. He isn't rationalizing anything. Everything you see of him is his reality. You want to put a term to it.. to rationalize it.

It's only a game for you. And he was never playing.

by **Pieces** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:25 pm

svenska500 I referred to the game because I was also responding to awakenow's post as well without clarifying.

Did you ever notice how strange personalities came out of nowhere sometimes.. around other people..? Like.. "who is this person"? Well, it's because he made sure you only saw the person you wanted to see. He became a complete and total lie of what he knew you desired. Yet.. he is human and I am sure he cracked once in awhile. If you had called him on this, it would have sent him into a rage, with the end result, blaming you for something. Just think back to all those odd times where you saw someone that you didn't even know in him.. Everything.. was a lie.. to everyone.
/quote]
This had came up numerous times where I would see the show he puts on for everyone else. It was really creepy how quick he would change.

You say that now. But it won't be easy, as the days go by and you start missing him. The only thing you can do is keep busy to keep your mind off him. The emotional mind is not always something that is easily controlled by just saying "I'm done". You will have to be strong and vigilant in your conviction to stay away.. as he will test you and tempt you at every chance he has, with every little bit of knowledge he has on you.

I've been dealing with this for 3 months already and I've already gone to the point where I don't miss him because I'm understanding that the person I fell in love with don't actually exist, the moral values, the traditional guy with the same beliefs as me doesn't really exist. It was all made up. So that is enough to keep away. Plus, I'm not insane, I don't enjoy this gut wrenching feeling that he left me with. Also, really not interested in repeating my mistakes over and over..... It's not good for me and I've never been someone to let people put me down and that's all it's been since the break up. To keep me coming back =( ...... Everytime we have talked, I cry while he's tecting me because I am shameful I let someone scare their point into me. And that's what i tell him, when he's wrong he tries to scare his point across. My self is way more important than missing someone. The person I've been missing was me.

by **svenska500** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:06 pm

If you can take anything from this, understand that he probably helped you realize more about the person you really are than others ever have in your life.

Sometimes it takes experiences and individuals like this to awaken us to our reality. My ex-narc, was the only one that helped me accept and realize that I was a narc myself.. when nobody else ever did.

Other than that, he should be a mere distant memory of a time in your past.

Dreams aren't real. And neither was this.

Time to live in the real world.

His future is not of your concern and there is absolutely nothing you can do for him, but wish him the best.. even after what he did to you.

I don't think you envy his life.. and deep inside.. I also think you know he cared about you as much as he could..

As they say.. sometimes you have to forgive to move on.

Don't look for closure.. just forgive him.. wish him the best for dealing with his very complicated, lonely and isolated life... because now it's time to live yours.

by **Pieces** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:04 pm

Ya, I wished him the best wishes and *DING *DING *DING* FIGHT!

I learned what misery and feeling hopeless actually was. But in the long run I'm happy it's over. I feel pity for him because he will never be happy. He's a miserable, competative, jealous, lying person wearing a happy costume.

I would rather be in my shoes any day than his. It was exhausting to keep up with the different personalities and different styles. One day it was all day drunk beach bum, next day it's chasing pabst blue ribbon hipster too good for everyone, to grudge grease monkey I ride dirtbikes, to clean but doesn't drink lets go to the opera.
I'm all for versitility but it wasn;t interests, He actually could switch full blown lifestyle from one day to the next.

So I'm very happy with HIS decision to push.. and this time I'm happy to follow suite.

by **svenska500** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:30 pm

Pieces wrote:Ya, I wished him the best wishes and *DING *DING *DING* FIGHT!

No, no and no. I did not mean literally to forgive him and wish him the best.. etc.. with actual words to him. I meant in your thoughts and heart. To nobody, but yourself.

A narc will never accept loss gracefully. You cannot decide to end the relationship by telling him this. That is for 'him' to decide when to completely and entirely discard you.

His ego cannot handle someone discarding him.

I feel pity for him because he will never be happy. He's a miserable, competative, jealous, lying person wearing a happy costume.

I would not exactly feel complete pity for him. Narcs usually live fairly content lives; albeit very different from those of you and most others. He will be very isolated and lonely deep inside.. yet most likely he will be fine in the long run. Wishing pity for him as well, does not help the recovery process either. Just wish him the best in your heart as said and move on. It's his life to deal with and figure out..

I would rather be in my shoes any day than his. It was exhausting to keep up with the different personalities and different styles. One day it was all day drunk beach bum, next day it's chasing pabst blue ribbon hipster too good for everyone, to grudge grease monkey I ride dirtbikes, to clean but doesn't drink lets go to the opera.
I'm all for versitility but it wasn;t interests, He actually could switch full blown lifestyle from one day to the next.

And that is part of what drew you to him. You had never met anyone like him and humans desire to unravel what we cannot figure out.

So I'm very happy with HIS decision to push.. and this time I'm happy to follow suite.

It will always be his decision. Live, learn and move on. The dream is over. Don't let it turn into a nightmare for the rest of your life.

The only downside to meeting him.. is you may find everyone to be very vanilla.. once you go narc.. it's hard to back to normal.. but this also says something about you as a person.

My advice would be to stay single for awhile.. if something comes along.. go for it.. but don't expect it to work out like it did before you met this individual. He has changed your thoughts on the type of mate you want and whom and what you desire will most likely forever be changed.

by **wooster** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:37 pm

Euler wrote:lol, has anyone really read this thread and not seen what's wrong with it?

We don't know anything about this girl, her ex, what their relationship was like, how they broke up, or what they did to each other. We don't know anything about their personality quirks, temperament, patience level (or lack there of), if they're considerate (or not), etc.

Yet everybody jumped on the party bandwagon and agreed that he must be a Narcissist just because she labelled him one without giving any information. I would love it if people would think before they post.

For all we know she could have cheated on him. A person doesn't have to have a disorder to "hate" their ex.

Exactly.

I would love it if people would think before they post.

Or at least look up the poster's history. Which, in this case, would have revealed that the poster is borderline - which is quite self-explanatory. (If not, then take a brief tour of the BPD forum.)

That's the main fallacy of all the "victim" posts: the absent third party gets trashed, vilified, labeled and called by various names behind their backs, without knowing their side of the story. Which might be entirely different.

I tend to believe that a good 80% of "narcissists" are created by dependent- or borderline-type exes.
Not saying that narcissism is a nonexistent baseless construct or urban myth, but that its potential danger or toxicity is mainly (if not only) relevant in parent-child relationships.

by **awakenow** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:47 am

Pieces wrote: I've been dealing with this for 3 months already and I've already gone to the point where I don't miss him because I'm understanding that the person I fell in love with don't actually exist, the moral values, the traditional guy with the same beliefs as me doesn't really exist. It was all made up. So that is enough to keep away. Plus, I'm not insane, I don't enjoy this gut wrenching feeling that he left me with. Also, really not interested in repeating my mistakes over and over..... It's not good for me and I've never been someone to let people put me down and that's all it's been since the break up. To keep me coming back =( ...... Everytime we have talked, I cry while he's tecting me because I am shameful I let someone scare their point into me. And that's what i tell him, when he's wrong he tries to scare his point across. My self is way more important than missing someone. The person I've been missing was me.

You should be a little more honest or you'll walk back into it with blinders on. On Sunday you fought with him. On Tuesday you stated "The man I love is gone, huh?" That isn't not missing someone, and 48 hours is an inconceivable amount of time to go from wondering what happened to the man you love to "I've already gotten to the point where I don't miss him"

Sven is correct - he does exist and there were times where you probably did see his real personality. His affection for you during the honeymoon phase was as real as it gets for him. Unless he had an ulterior motive from day 1, he thought he'd finally found the one person that made him feel whole - that filled that empty void he'd wanted filled his entire life. Soon however (2 months?) he started seeing something different, and his outlet at his own disappointment for being wrong was you. This does not mean you did something wrong. It means you started acting more like you than before and that wasn't what he wanted.

Every person, in the beginning of a relationship, 'acts' to a certain degree. Some of that is the hormones released during this infatuation stage, some of it is the normal 'getting to know you' dance where a person portrays themself in the best possible light and always looks put together, some of it is a 'redesign' of ourselves we do when meeting a new person - all the baggage we have is unknown to this stranger so we get to act as if it doesn't exist. And of course, they don't know much about us, so we are as mysterious to them as they are to us, so for a time we get to act out how we wish we were. The beginning of most relationships starts with two people engaging in narcissistic behavior.

The more comfortable one is around another, the more they act like themselves. They start complaining about their boss, which a narc finds weak - after all, they would have had this monster boss all figured out and wrapped around their finger. What's wrong with you that you're just taking this boss' $#%^? The non will, instead of looking their best at all times, will at the end of the day throw on some sweatpants, wash off their makeup and just relax. After all, it's just the non and this great person that loves them, so being frumpy is fine, right? Nope. That isn't the beauty the narc wanted so much, it's just a frumpy chick in sweats. Not so great after all.

These are just examples, but the point is there - you let your proverbial hair down and that beautiful woman that was mysterious, smart and fun is now an average woman just hanging around whining about her problems that she can't fix. Ugh - no thanks. That's not what the narc wanted, he wanted the mysterious beauty he was excited to see. He starts to withdraw and the non starts asking what's wrong. Well, he isn't going to tell you that you're not meeting his expectations. He probably doesn't even realize it himself consciously. So the answer is 'nothing'. The non presses and starts questioning why this person, the love of her life, her 'soulmate', isn't telling her. Is it her? Did she do something wrong? The more she presses, the more annoyed he becomes and the weaker she appears. This cycle continues until the narc views the non as nothing more than a pathetic person that he can abuse at will, and that's just what he'll do.

Again, as Sven stated, it isn't intentional. It's just how he's wired.

For three months you've been working on getting him back. Two days ago you stated the man you love is gone. You didn't, in 48 hours, get over this completely. You're right to act strong, but don't lie to yourself.

Sven commented that you should forgive him and move on (completely paraphrasing here). I agree, but more importantly you should forgive yourself. You're looking back and seeing all of the things you did to try to bring him back to you, all the times you tolerated his abuse and lies, all the times you cried and let him get to you. Forgive yourself for this and everything else.

As a side note - you may want to get yourself tested for STDs. Narcs are notorious cheaters. If after 2 months he was doing his own thing, taking your car and not working, there's a strong chance he was doing other things (women) while you were at work. Also you mentioned he was no longer living with you but he'd call you and have 'relations' with you. I could be wrong, but it appears he views sex as proof that he's conquered someone. If that's a correct assumption, you should probably make sure you aren't carrying a gift that keeps on giving.

by **Pieces** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:53 pm

Already been tested. Personally I've always been working on getting over it with minor relapses. When I said the man I love is gone, that was meaning towards the beginning of the end. If any of you could've been a fly on the wall you would be as over it as I am. I DO ultimately miss him, but I do not miss feeling that sh** feeling he gives me. Every time we have talked over the last 3 months has left me either in tears or feeling bad about myself. Talking/Seeing him is NOT worth my sanity. Because like you said " The more she presses, the more annoyed he becomes and the weaker she appears. This cycle continues until the narc views the non as nothing more than a pathetic person that he can abuse at will, and that's just what he'll do. " This is to the T, I don't enjoy being abused. It's not fun at all, doesn't give me a feeling of purpose in life.
As you said "You're right to act strong, but don't lie to yourself." Lying to myself would be saying I could talk to him nonchantly and tell him I have prior engagements... I CANNOT do that. I will fall back into the vicious cycle that I've been in for the last 3 months.

"Narcs are notorious cheaters. If after 2 months he was doing his own thing, taking your car and not working, there's a strong chance he was doing other things (women) while you were at work"
He was always really weird about sex and women. The attention he craves is/was from men =( He always wants to impress other guys...

I actually feel really good the more time that passes between speaking to him. He has a way of going out of his way to make me feel like $#%^. Here's an example of how our last conversation started after not speaking for almost 2 weeks. We were supposed to go to a show together.

Me: Hey, I found someone to go to the show.
Him: YA, I was going to be miserable if I had to go anyways. I wouldn't have enjoyed the show because I was forced to go.
Me: Umm You could've just said ok.
Him: I know all night it's going to be why can;t we be back together. I'm not looking to hang out.
Me: When was the last time I said ANYTHING about that?
Him: It's been awhile but I know that's your intentions.
Him: I was in such a good mood. I hate sitting and wasting time trying to deal with this. Let me live my life.

So sad =( ..... I havent' spoken since.

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