The Self-actualizer, that other Dx looks a bit Narcy

People often employ narcissistic defenses when they are going through a tough patch. When a person feels alone, different and not understood, blaming someone else can seem like a strengthening thing to do. The Self-actualizer is a personality, who, when confronted by problems and failure can also use narcissistic defenses. They are often the one who stands out in a crowd. They too have to discover what it is about them that makes them different. Rather than submitting to conservatism and conformity these souls are propelled to find their own way. Their powerful inner ego sometimes gets out of control and then those narcissistic defenses are recruited. At that moment they can resemble an N and will score well on an N checklist but that is where the similarity stops.

A self actualizer has a fully integrated self and operates from birth listening to their own voice. That is where their problem lies. They never believe anyone else can tell them anything worth listening to.
The self actualizer is the dipole opposite of the NPD. The NPD has fragments inside to feel with. The self actualizer has so much integration that they can love with greater depth than even the average person. They can respond to all the flavours that exist. They are the lover of beauty, nature, music, poetry and the arts. Their highly integrated self can even experience the paranormal. They have the knowledge and dream to reach their potential. How closely the ideal fits to the real deal will indicate how comfortable, controlled and content they can become, given the fact that they can rarely escape their inner voice.
That inner voice gives drive but can also cause a restlessness and intolerance of frustration. Without creative and fulfilling solutions, tough times are filtered and interpreted as boredom.
Narcissistic defense strategies will be employed because the ego just cant be wrong and that shortcut to blaming someone is the easy out. Shouting someone down or manipulating them into agreement always works. The SA never has to LISTEN then. They will be looking for a success that is based solely on what they do. This will be based on what the higher self is telling them. They will be guided to reach their own potential. Such a person doesn't care what anyone else thinks. There is no audience requirement at all. Such a person can have lots of failures that only seem to steel the resolve. They look for something significant to do with their life. Settling for the 9 to 5 isn't an option.
This is the Bill Gates phenomena. It is just that every SA doesn't hit the success button. Maybe only 1 out of 10. But they are compelled to keep trying because their own inner voice is so strong.

I divide SAs into types based on their focus in the equation 'a means to an end.' SAs can be great problem solvers. They can know the means at their disposal to solve all the problems they will face. They harness their own means and work towards some open ended solution. Then there are the end gamers. There is always a moral hazard here that others will be providing the means.
A SA is about harnessing their potential for the benefit of everyone else. Self -actualizers have to develop that wholeness in the spiritual field before fully realizing success.

What problems can you expect from a Self-actualiser.
1. They never listen or have great difficulties actually focusing on any voice but their own. This will be first noticed by the age of 2 or 3 years old. A positive corollary stemming from this fact is a tremendous focus, ability to self initiate, and self learn.
2. They can have problems with parents and siblings as a result of 1. They have a will of their own.
3. They are frequently referred to as stubborn and unable to be reasoned with. This may be viewed as an inability to actually value or incorporate anyone's perspective. They can resist being influenced by any one else.
4. Prioritizing. Responding to their own voice first. They can see the whole picture but may be seduced by the more enticing creative activities. This leaves the heavy lifting to someone else who has to meet their portion of the mundane physical and emotional needs stuff. This is the type who is just too busy to do their allocation of the chores. Somehow they get away with it, as people have learnt to step around and have concluded they must be doing something awesome.

This is where Maslow fits in. Maslow has this heirachy of needs pyramid. One's physical and safety needs are at the bottom of the pyramid and one moves up through emotional connectedness and self esteem to full realization. Not being able to adequately address the needs equation can unbalance a SA and tip them into the narcissistic spectrum. They enjoy the top of the pyramid but failure can have them freefall into that lower register. They may have relied heavily on a partner to do all this bottom rung needs requirement. When they have to do it...the boredom and frustration of not being able to work on their potential at the top of the tree can unleash a beast. An unmet needs equation shifts the focus from their own voice. Can that be tolerated? Their voice isn't in control and so there is anger.

You can find Maslow's pyramid online. It explains everyone's priority needs equation. An SA would like to turn this equation on its head. Working with zeal at the peak versus the constraints inherent in all those unmet needs down below.....Ugh.

Can constraints be enabling.. We might throw up Steven Hawkings, but no I don't think he had to make his dinner or shop for the groceries or build his house.

Marg, quite frankly your posts are getting irritating. I just gotta put that out there. I know you are trying to help people or whatever but you set people back because you don't seem to get what a "self actualized person" is. Anyone can be in the process of reaching the top of that pyramid and becoming self actualized - even people with PD's. You've been going around this board telling people that they are "self actualized" which implies that they are at a higher state of consciousness or existence than others around them. This is NOT good for people in an NPD forum...LOL.

The problem with people with PD's, narcissism included is that they get stuck on certain parts of that pyramid and they never reach self actualization. I'll say the problems begin around the second and third levels for most, narcissists especially...LOL.

You are viewing things from a different lens. Me personally, I tend to see things in people where I'll get the strongest feeling that they are being manipulative. I can just see it on them. Though they will swear that "it's all me" and "I'm making a big deal out of small things again, I want attention, etc". So me personally, I can only trust my own instincts though my instincts don't seem to be fitting with the reality of many others. Who's right? Me or them? ###$ knows. All I know is that I'm not going to lose to them. They can play the game but I can play it better.

I can admit this on these boards but trust me, it brings PAIN to my soul to say these things in person. lol I would never admit these things in real life...never give them the satisfaction because most people will start to look down on you for it.

I hear what you say and I apologize if you have been offended by my use of terms. Perhaps I should have referenced the terms. Self Actualizer in the thread is specifically associated with the personality profile that is the dipole opposite end of the narcissistic personality. This person is overwhelmed by their internal world. Unfortunately Maslow and the Psych experts who recognized this persona have used the same term. I will try in future to specify whether I am talking about self realization which is the journey each of us make to reach our potential or the Self actualizer which is this quite specific personality profile. Most of us neatly occupy the bell curve and will conform to expectation. Then you have either side of the curve. Maybe you can consider it a continuum from looking outside ourselves to looking within. Sorry I didn't make up the name for this persona. If anyone has another term for this personality I would be glad to use it. I just have never heard of any other.

I really doubt I would have told anyone they were actualized as you have referenced. None I know of.

There were people on this forum who really didn't fit the N profile at all. It would have been remiss of me to let that continue without doing something to explain the origin of their narcissistic like tendencies. They have a free thread here to post any of their concerns with this Dx. It is likely there will be others who have just associated angry behaviours and arrogance with NPD and are trying to cherrypick symptoms to fit the forum not knowing of this personality at all.

When I hear someone say their partner was NPD last month, I either pray for Euler or let out a scream.

Sorry again. Marg. The world will be a better place when we heal ourselves. I need to ask myself why it bothers me. Idealism.

PS Have a reread as you could well be SA yourself. Are you looking out to interpret the world or looking in?

I know that the N.P.D forum may not be the place to discuss S.A, however the traits of N.P.D in the S.A psyche are certainly something that I have struggled to come to terms with. Without Marg to offer an alternate DX, I would have still be wondering round lost trying to find a place to sit at the N.P.D table while never actually wanting to be there.

I could tick all of the N.P.D boxes, but then kept throwing up the odd anomaly. Love and Empathy are something that I could not have ever agreed with in terms of N.P.D. I feel both, and more deeply than I had realised. I had convinced myself that love was something I would never feel because N.P.D’s can’t “feel”.

Thanks to Marg, my own state of mind is now so much calmer and I have once again clarity of thought. I can also start to think about my future and plan for life after………………….

The S.A tag feels much easier to carry than the N.P.D burden felt.

Hi Jay. I got this thread up to just give a focus as there was no threads for the SA at all. This is really because it is a personality but not considered a disorder. The disordered bit of behaviour is still defined under narcissistic. So you might say you are NON and bit NT. Speaking for the forum. I welcomed your imput in all the threads. You provided a mature insightful position that always added value to the topic.
You probably recognize that others or partners of others may also have fallen foul of the checklist for Narcissism and started trying to fit themselves to it. To make a diagnosis you can't look at the symptoms alone but the underlying position, character and makeup of the personality. You are looking for how it was first invested. Still in hindsight that ..Don't listen, you posted, was all it took to clear my view.

I made a checklist of problems that stem from the active inner voice. If someone is SA, that list might convince them really where their problem lies.
There is very little written on personality unless there is pathology so I doubt you will find anything.
Unfortunately the same term is used by people explaining Maslow and self realization. I didn't recognize there would be a problem until Sniff pointed it out.

How is the listening going. The SAs I have known resorted to lengthy periods listening to music. It helped stop the chatter. Alternatively, meditation and a stint in an ashram...

This will probably be one of the last threads that I leave in this forum, but I wanted to offer some closure to my story.

I was really struggling with the whole N.P.D tag, but I found no other alternative position with which to occupy my perceived problems. I ticked all the N.P.D boxes and of course this was devastating to me. I am a sensitive soul and deep down the pain of the realisation of the N.P.D traits was hard to deal with.

What this thread did was give me the opportunity to assess my strengths and weaknesses, and to examine who I am, where I am, and more importantly where I am going. I am grateful to all who took the time to read and offer an insight. I am especially grateful to Marg for removing the burden of the N.P.D tag and replacing it with the S.A dx.

Thank you for posting this Marg, this helped me a lot. I never thought of myself as SA, although I'm familiar with Maslov's theory, but now that I've read what you posted, I can relate to a lot of things and than add a few things from my perspective. I started looking back and yes, I've might have used some narcissistic defenses in the past, mostly in marriage when things were rough and tough.

I’m listing my own characteristics, not to brag LOL, but I think those also fit in SA profile.

-I'm not a loner, but I need my space and I need solitude and time just for me. I'm fiercely independent and hate relaying on others to do things. I do have few close friendships and these people are like extended family or even more important.
-I do listen but many times will interrupt because I already know or sense what the other will say (had to practice for years not to interrupt people but I still do it here and there). And will ask for opinion and advice but in the end I'll follow my own voice. The need to do things my way can be stronger than anything else.
-The need to develop whatever potential is strong. And due to knowledge and skills I posses I've often downplayed my abilities in order not to make others feel uncomfortable.
-Very strong sense for ethics, I have my own code
-Very strong sense of self and a strong ego too
-I don’t like mediocrity and conformity, schematic thinking (linear), will examine every angle and then some LOL
-I do possess a childlike awe for many things and childlike behavior sometimes; will be happy over something so small and insignificant to anyone but me
-Spirituality is very important
-I’m not sure about others, SAs are quite different in many things, but I do care what close people think. Most of the time I’ll try to make good impression but I guess at the end of the day what people think will not matter so much
-The need to make a difference and leave a mark is strong
-Material possessions/money are less important than accomplishments

Hi Innanna,
Thanks for connecting with this thread. From my understanding the Self Actualizer is driven to follow their own inner voice. From your personal description you do seem to be fitting the personality profile here.

Problems occur for the SA when they are in relationships and they have to prioritize the needs equation. The inner voice being so strong that they fail to identify the needs of others. For some SAs other people aren't even on the horizon of consideration. Prioritizing themselves leads to labels of being too self absorbed to care. Centering on self can then lead to a narcissistic posture which others pick up on. I think the remedy is simple mindfulness. To listen with more connection and accept influence of others particularly when recognizing needs.

We all become narcissistic when we are in crisis though. Any breakdown in a relationship will cause us to turn inward, feel the pain and point the finger to blame. The degree of connect with truth distinguishes whether we are in healthful defence or narcissistic aggression.

Thanks Jay for stopping by to tell us your story. I was glad to be able to signpost you in the right direction. Your contribution was always valued so please drop by anytime, we would be delighted to hear from you.
You will never know how many people read your story and connected with it themselves. From your self diagnosis you had to face up to some high hurdles. Hopefully you have made it easier for those who follow.