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Narcissistic mother in law?

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Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby staticline » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:22 am

I am 23 and I have been with my 25 year old boyfriend for 2 years. I love him dearly and we have a great relationship for the most part, the only area where we seem to have a bit of, albeit, unspoken conflict is in issues surrounding his mother. My boyfriend and I plan to move in together next year and I anticipate that she is going to play a larger role in my life, I have some concerns and so I'm hoping to gain some insight into her behaviours, something I hope you guys can help me with.

My boyfriend's mother has a very strong personality and she seems to have a lot of influence over the whole family dynamic. She likes to make herself heard, and considers herself to have a brilliant sense of humour, with which she makes fun of people's short comings, and seems to find it hilarious to humiliate others. Sometimes it feels as though she has some kind of sonar tracking system for people's vulnerabilities.

She plays a very strong mothering role and seems to discourage acts of age-appropriate independance from her children with the afforementioned ridiculing. Which may or may not be why her two sons are not terribly independant. When I made it into the fortress which is their family home, I was suprised to observe that my then 23 year old boyfriend and his 29 year old brother had literally no domestic responsibilities. My would-be mother in law did all cleaning, cooking, washing, ironing - perhaps not SO unusual, but she continued to tidy their bedrooms, picking their dirty washing up off the floor - packed their work lunches, woke up an hour early on a morning to make sure they were both up for work. At first I thought that this was just my boyfriend being lazy and having his mother do all the work, so when he was talking about what he wanted in his lunch the next day, I chipped in - "hey, your mum's not very well - why don't you pack your own lunch for tomorrow?" Never again. She came down on me like a ton of bricks - why on earth would he pack his own lunch?

Neither of the boys had ever considered moving out of home despite being in well paid employment for many years. When I asked my boyfriend if he'd ever considered moving out before, he couldn't understand why he might have even considered it. His brother agreed to move in with his own girlfriend last year but seemed to spend all of his free time round at mum's, which I gather was a source of contention. It didn't last very long, they had a small argument and he smashed up all her things and returned home to mum for the night. As she told it to me, she realised him "throwing tantrums" and "running home to mum" had come to typify their relationship in a tight spot, so she locked the door.

Their sister, however, the middle of the three kids is much different - apparently she had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with her mother as a teenager and she moved out when she was 17 and has a lot of lifeskills. She often comments of how her brothers are mollycoddled.

My would-be mother in law makes a great song and dance of being supportive of her son's relationships, but her actions aren't really congruant. She refuses any offer to meet the parents of her children's partners, because, as she says it she "doesn't need to meet them". She met his brother's girlfriend's parents by accident when she was helping them move in together after 6 years. She met his sister's partner's parents at the birth of her grandchild. She criticises his parents in relationtion to how they look after the baby and otherwise refuses any offer on their part to forge relations between the two families. I think the message here is "you can be in my family but I'm never going to be in your's".

I think all of this effects my boyfriend in ways that he doesn't really let on. I had the best insight into this when we first met and we were in the haze of new-found intimacy. He revealed that when we first started seeing each other he begun having reoccurring "waking" dreams in which his mother entered the room in the dark and he couldn't find her. He found these quite upsetting at the time, but when I've mentioned it since he's denied ever having them. He also expressed having frequent and compulsive thoughts about her when he was away from her - that she might come to some harm or be upset. I remember at the time thinking that his image of his mother was very idealistic. He denies ever having these also.

This is another peculiar thing - the closer I got to the family, the more I was shut out to his thoughts and feelings about them. He will never discuss with me if so-and-so had been annoying him that day, like you do. He is extremely hypersensitive about his family and he will take the slightest thing as a huge insult, and responds by cutting me off from them until I mention I haven't been round in a while, at which point he'll reveal the oft innocuous comment that dropped me in it. It's not that he does this to be cruel he's just extremely sensitive. Though he is quite critical of my family and thinks nothing of this.

His mum has become more and more insulting towards me as the relationship's gone on. She says very cutting and humiliating things - usually my boyfriend will remove me from the room and apologise, but then qualifies this be saying he doesn't actually think there's anything wrong with it because it's just her humour. Therefore I'm confused as to why he apologised.

I really do love my boyfriend but since we're talking about setting up home I worry that his mum might try and come between us, or that she'll prove controlling/invasive in ways that'll negatively effect the relationship. Should I be worried? How can I best deal with this situation to keep his mother on side? How can I let my boyfriend know we're on the same side when it comes to his family? Afterall, I love him and I love them by extention.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Blarneystone » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:19 pm

You are in a tough spot. When you marry a person you marry their family too. In this case, his mom wants to be his #1 love. Are you willing and able to battle her for the throne? Can you destroy her in his eyes? Because that is what it will take. Otherwise she'll be in your nest criticizing and mentally poisoning you the rest of your life.

Keep your options open. It appears from your post your boyfriend has no interest in rocking the boat. He may also have inherited some of his mother's smothering nastiness.

I know you love the guy and all, but it sounds like he is caught up in the sickness. Personally I think he is a lost for the next 5, 10 years. Maybe forever. That's not your fault.

You are young enough to explore other relationships. It seems hard, but ultimately it is the easiest way.
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Not a Victim » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:32 pm

I don't necessarily think she is narcissistic. She is just one of those classic types that want to control everything and still think their kids are their property.

Can you just live separately from them? distance and minimal contact are the best mitigating factors in this situation :)
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby SniffTheNarc » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:13 pm

I was suprised to observe that my then 23 year old boyfriend and his 29 year old brother had literally no domestic responsibilities. My would-be mother in law did all cleaning, cooking, washing, ironing - perhaps not SO unusual, but she continued to tidy their bedrooms, picking their dirty washing up off the floor - packed their work lunches, woke up an hour early on a morning to make sure they were both up for work.


hahaha that's hilarious. 30 year old and 23 y/o getting lunches packed everyday and having mom wash their dirty clothes, clean their rooms, and wake them up for work in the morning? Those guys are f***** up really bad. Have no doubts about it in your mind. He will probably switch up on you once you move in together...you know that right? It'll be like Jekyll and Hyde - just wait and see. And I'm pretty sure that in two years you have seen some signs in his behavior that are highly unusual.

It didn't last very long, they had a small argument and he smashed up all her things and returned home to mum for the night. As she told it to me, she realised him "throwing tantrums" and "running home to mum" had come to typify their relationship


Too much parental love and sheltering screws up the mind in boys...especially that which comes from the mother. It deadens the emotions and results in perpetual immaturity. It's because the root of that type of parental behavior comes not from actual love, but from selfishness.

The more primitive functions of the brain become dominant during the developmental stages of the child and well, there's not much you can do about that. The brain changes from a social, group oriented, caring, compassionate structure to an egotistical, self centered, haughty blob of evil.
deepwater2011 wrote:Sniff is always right, from what I have read so far in different posts.

^A wise woman has spoken. Silence, mortals.^
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Blarneystone » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:30 pm

I didn't want to put it as bluntly, but SnifftheNarc echoes my thoughts pretty closely. You seem like a nice enough young lady. Why put yourself through such misery? STN is right. You don't just have her to worry about. Her two sons are effectively her minions. They will protect her at all costs unless you can do as I said above - destroy her in his eyes.

But even then, what have you got? Lets say you win and he chooses no contact with her the rest of his life. Does he have the maturity and life skills to get through a lifetime of marriage, kids, billpaying, etc. etc?
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Greatexpectations » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:02 pm

She could well be narcissistic, two 'golden child', engulfed, infantalised sons, and one daughter 'the scapegoat' who moved out a 17 who I bet this mother has little time for.
A classic narcissistic family dynamic.

This mother's behavior is not love but selfish, obsessive and controlling.

SniffTheNarc
hahaha that's hilarious. 30 year old and 23 y/o getting lunches packed everyday and having mom wash their dirty clothes, clean their rooms, and wake them up for work in the morning? Those guys are f***** up really bad. Have no doubts about it in your mind. He will probably switch up on you once you move in together...you know that right? It'll be like Jekyll and Hyde - just wait and see. And I'm pretty sure that in two years you have seen some signs in his behavior that are highly unusual.

I have to agree with Sniff.

I had the misfortune to marry a man/child like that. I was shocked to go round his house (years ago now) and find his mum doing him what she described as "coopy egg and soldiers" she even cut the top off his egg for him (he was 23). He did no chores and had no responsibility's.
He was a big selfish lazy infantalised baby who idolized his histrionic mother. A nightmare of a mother in law, I never did manage to do anything right in her eyes (or his). Wow she was a gaslighting b###h.
He was a narcissist with a large sense of entitlement.
Go careful staticline.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby margharris » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:16 pm

I suppose I should play the devils advocate and come to the MIL defense.

This is her family and she has probably over parented. Her position in her family gives her confidence but she doesn't have enough confidence to meet your family. So she lives in her cocoon. There she is in control. If you see some of these behaviours as a defense then she will not be so scary.

Her humour will take some getting used to. Not fully understanding the consequences and perspectives of what she says can be narcissistic but it also could be a cognitive deficit or a lack of education. She isn't actually singling you out at all. She is actually incorporating you in the humour. Unfortunately she doesn't do it well enough to be funny. Still if it is a concern just saying, I am not up with this style of humour might be enough to temper the worst of it.
Remember, she will be anxious about having someone like you there. It is sort of like a negotiation where you are teaching each other the rules of engagement. She is likely to mess up and get it wrong on occasion but you will mess up to. Just think of it as her having a Ricky Gervais moment.

The point is he loves her and to strip him away from her would alter him. He has a right to a mother. No body comes without some strings. To honour and respect him, you need to try and get along. It is too early for narcissistic labels. She hasn't really done anything to you.
She is from the traditionalist camp and she has enjoyed her role as homemaker.
A generation ago we all lived with these defined roles and thought nothing of it.
Today we are all too quick to label and catastrophize. Why not foster some kindness and admiration for her. Tell her what a great meal she prepared. Compliment her on the house. In other words move towards her. Build up a relationship by looking for the positives. You can tear down a relationship easily in seconds but it takes work to build one. You know he will thank you for it.
Independence is a bit of a modern myth. We need to recognize and strive for interdependence. We need to be there for others as much as we are there for ourselves. How much you can do for another, could just be what this mother in law is about.

When you point the finger of judgment, recognize how many fingers are pointing your way.
Oh! that was so old school. Forgive me but I'm a struggling MIL myself. We are the quintessential butt end of every joke. We have to overcome all this bias to get to a working relationship with a DIL.
Yes she will get it wrong at times but at least give her a chance before you condemn without trial. You have a lot of control over her future, more than you realize. She has given you her credentials that she is supportive of her son's relationships. That is the green light for you.

Stop predicting what might happen when you move in together. Life has a way of giving us all problems that are best faced when they arrive.
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Blarneystone » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:43 pm

So margharris, do you say "cutting and humiliating things" as "jokes" to your potential in-laws instead of trying to find common ground?

I think it is very poor advice to tell her to just throw caution to the wind and move in with this man-child.
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby margharris » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:27 am

She has been dating for two years. It is hardly throwing caution to the wind to move in with him. Yes, there is a risk. The risk is it might work. 50% of the time if statistics are right. Walking away without giving it a go will just lock in the failure.She would always be left thinking what might have been. I am not about trying to limit and control life to conform to my predictions. I don't think I predict that well. I am about going with the flow and seeing what happens. It is just an open ended style of thinking and trusting life.
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Re: Narcissistic mother in law?

Postby Not a Victim » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:23 am

In the culture where I was born, men are taken care of by their moms and later wives. It's expected to cook for them, wash their clothes, etc. I agree this mom may be more 'traditional' than narcissistic. Good luck anyway :)
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