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Passive/aggressive?

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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby Normal? » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:41 am

nomoretears wrote: It raises another question, though. And I guess the questions, until I come to terms with this, will keep coming.


Keep asking the questions Nomoretears – you will find the answers on this forum if you search hard enough. And although this experience may seem singular to you, you will find that your questions are the same ones we all had once. The uniformity of experience is astounding!

nomoretears wrote: Could the problem have happened when I started doubting things, things he said, things he said he did, and was more vocal about it? Towards the end of the relationship, I began to doubt everything, and while I never confronted him about these doubts, I think they started to manifest themselves in my attitude toward him. I no longer believed everything he said and did was "right." I never told him so, but those doubts clearly were there. The "rose-colored glasses" started to get a bit foggy, I guess, and maybe he realized this


YES! This is it exactly. The Narcissistic individual is acutely and intensely focused on your ‘mirroring’ of him. It is the only evidence he has that he is who he says he is. You reflecting this back is therefore of enormous importance to him. It reassures him that he is a ‘good person’ and worthwhile and he can ignore any evidence to the contrary and concentrate solely on your reinforcement of his positive characteristics.

But this means that any relationship he has is doomed to failure. For, in time, we all see our partners through less than rose-tinted glasses, we all begin to spot their machinations or their selfishness or incredible entitlement. And eventually even the most benevolent creature in the world will begin to feel disgruntled, and will begin to question the Narcissist’s behaviour. We want more than to be the Narcissist’s ‘fan’: we want more reciprocity. Feeling let down and insignificant becomes more commonplace. To some extent the Narcissist pushes us towards this because he must test us, perhaps by behaving in less and less acceptable ways until we react and when we do – our fate is sealed.

With his highly-tuned powers of observation the Narcissist sees this – sees it clearly, and he begins to detach. There and then. He may feign interest for a while, until he is ready to completely devalue you and the relationship. But you know – and he knows you know. This is a part of the dance in which you try to explain to him that you want him to be more committed or be ‘more like he was in the beginning’. For him this criticism means only one thing – you do not love him and when you said that you did, it was a lie. He may even say this outright. You have cheated him you see –just as others cheated him. Therefore you deserve everything you get and more. And that decision is FINAL – no shades of grey, no reflection, no consideration of any evidence to the contrary (again). You have misled and tried to humiliate him and he will not tolerate it.

Not sure if any of that struck a chord, but it is my experience of the dynamics. Once you being to doubt/criticise/question even the Narcissistic individual then YOU are not who you said you were – therefore, you have to go!
This should have been a noble creature:
A goodly frame of glorious elements,
Had they been wisely mingled; as it is,
It is an awful chaos—light and darkness,
And mind and dust, and passions and pure thoughts,
Mix’d, and contending without end or order,
All dormant or destructive.
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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby unreal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:52 pm

Is it possible for an N to be passive/aggressive rather than explosive?


Yes. I'm a narcissist. I just spent 4 days in another city, and the love of my life and another guy were there too. They slept with each other every night. At night, I had the most extreme rages of my life, but I didn't do anything. During daytime, I acted all nice and normal. But the rages were so terrible I woke up with new wounds every morning, I guess I scratched myself bloody while I slept. So that would be a perfect example for

a) passive/aggressive narcissistic rage
b) the worst torture you can give to a narcissist.
What we are concerned with is narcissism in a pathological sense, with self-love that serves as a cloak for self-hatred. The polarities of self-hatred and self-love are linked together in the defensive system, but the nuclear problem is the self-hatred.
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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby LifeSong » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:15 pm

unreal wrote:
Is it possible for an N to be passive/aggressive rather than explosive?

Yes. I'm a narcissist. I just spent 4 days in another city, and the love of my life and another guy were there too. They slept with each other every night. At night, I had the most extreme rages of my life, but I didn't do anything. During daytime, I acted all nice and normal. But the rages were so terrible I woke up with new wounds every morning, I guess I scratched myself bloody while I slept. So that would be a perfect example for
a) passive/aggressive narcissistic rage
b) the worst torture you can give to a narcissist.


It's this kind of 'looping the pain of the wound' back onto one's self that causes a narcissist to become addicted (as is my mother - alcohol and drugs) or to have an eventual emotional breakdown (as sfguy has written about on this board).

All narcissists act outwardly; my mother is controlled and sarcastic and caustic and can 'zing' someone with words or looks that wound or humiliate as effectively as an icepick quickly inserted and removed. But she doesn't rage; she doesn't loose control in that embarrassing fashion. She's very conscious of how others view her and that would blow the image she has in her professional and social circles. Yet, she often comes home and gets drunk or drugged to the point of passing out - it's her version of 'scratching til she bleeds'.

The most honest I ever hear my mother, or the best view I ever get of her interior world, is when she is under the influence; she speaks then w/o editing and I can hear how self-destructive her thought-processes are. She is so miserable that sometimes I feel such pity for her I have thoughts of doing various things to assist her (like moving closer to her, or spending more time with her, or letting her see the kids more often)... then I remember that she will sober up, and I lay my self-sacrificing own thoughts aside.
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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby 2011 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:01 pm

Tt
Last edited by 2011 on Thu May 26, 2011 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby unreal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:05 pm

2011 wrote:
unreal wrote:
but I didn't do anything

What was supposed you had to do?


I guess it would be more conforming to the narcissist cliché to burst into their room.

A question about intensity of emotions: unreal, I noticed that you use words like euphoria, dysphoria, crying narcissist, suffering, not happiness (and even "love", lol), it seems that you are sensitive person and can feel on very deep emotional level. I believe that only some people can feel that (based on my experience), and I think that deep emotions are not typical narcissistic attribute. Guys, what do you think about deep emotions in NPDs and in general? And what about euphoria? Do you think only some people can experience it?


I believe everybody can be euphoric or dysphoric. And all narcissists definitely suffer a lot.
What we are concerned with is narcissism in a pathological sense, with self-love that serves as a cloak for self-hatred. The polarities of self-hatred and self-love are linked together in the defensive system, but the nuclear problem is the self-hatred.
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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby 2011 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:16 pm

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Re: Passive/aggressive?

Postby nomoretears » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:35 pm

Normal, this is uncanny:
We want more than to be the Narcissist’s ‘fan’: we want more reciprocity. Feeling let down and insignificant becomes more commonplace. To some extent the Narcissist pushes us towards this because he must test us, perhaps by behaving in less and less acceptable ways until we react and when we do – our fate is sealed.
With his highly-tuned powers of observation the Narcissist sees this – sees it clearly, and he begins to detach. There and then. He may feign interest for a while, until he is ready to completely devalue you and the relationship. But you know – and he knows you know. This is a part of the dance in which you try to explain to him that you want him to be more committed or be ‘more like he was in the beginning’. For him this criticism means only one thing – you do not love him and when you said that you did, it was a lie. He may even say this outright. You have cheated him you see –just as others cheated him. Therefore you deserve everything you get and more. And that decision is FINAL – no shades of grey, no reflection, no consideration of any evidence to the contrary (again). You have misled and tried to humiliate him and he will not tolerate it.

You described exactly what seemed to happen. The detachment, feeling let down and feeling insignificant. And I did have that conversation with him, "that I just want things to be the way they used to be." I have started to see things that I glossed over as what they really were, signs of what he is. I suppose I should feel a bit sorry for him because it's really not at fault for his NPD. Or is he? The bottom line is, he's a human being, and he's been exposed to what a loving, giving relationship can be, thanks to me. He's a pathetic excuse for a human being to have the capacity to treat someone so horribly. (I'm having a strong, but angry day!) So, I can't except that he can't help what he does. God help anyone else he lures into his life. It's just kind of incredible to me that he was everything I could hope for in my life, and I couldn't believe how lucky I was to find him. Now, I realize I'm luckier now, without him.
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