Wowing a Narcissist

searchfortruth wrote:Ok, a question first -

How do you know she has NPD? Has she been diagnosed?

She hasn't been diagnosed. I put it together after a long time of trying to understand her.

I've reached the conclusion that she is a narcissist based on the fact that she's extremely selfish and has no empathy at all. Also, she has told me things like she sees all of her friends as being equal, and if one friend does bad things to her or another friend does good things for her, she still sees them as being equal and doesn't see a difference in this, hence people are all interchangeable to her, even her family and co-wokers. Me being her semi-boyfriend, I told her I loved her once, and she didn't want to see me for 5 months after that, so I learned she hates to be loved and that I shouldn't say that again, she wants to be not cared about.

Also, I asked her what the word friend means to her. She said a friend is a thing that always changes. She sees friends as things. Also, she reacts well to praise, but too much praise makes her think the person is lying and could be taken negatively, and she doesn't react well to disagreement.

I tried to tell her that I thought she was a narcissist once in a nice way, but she didn't understand what a narcissist was, and I saw that explaining it to her wasn't working very well, so I gave up.

Once her friend at work went to the hospital, and she visited her friend in the hospital. I asked her if she visited her friend because she really cared about her friends well-being or if she just wanted to get attention from people at work. At first she said because she really cared about her friend, and then after I pressed, she admitted that she didn't really care about her friend and visited her friend in the hospital only to get attention from people at her work, so that they would say what a nice girl she is visiting her friend in the hospital.

Her grandma died, but she didn't cry or care.

I can see in her eyes that when I am praising her about something, she is staring right at me straight into my eyes trying to take it as if the praise is a drug, it's narcissistic supply for sure that she's addicted to.

Sometimes she loses energy and feels sleepy and is entirely emotionless.

Sometimes she seems sadistic and happy if she thinks she has some kind of power over me or if something she is doing is making me feel confused or unsure about what I should do.

Sometimes she's funny, sometimes she's not. She has cycles. And sometimes she just pulls a disappearing act and doesn't answer my texts to her cell phone for a week or more.

Also, when she and I used to work at the same company, she was a manager, and a girl working under her got transferred to another branch in a city she didn't want to go to. That girl was practically crying. She said to that girl, "Oh that's too bad, sometimes these things happen." and didn't care one bit about that girls feelings, and seemed to enjoy watching that girl cry and quit the company.

At first I thought she was a sadist, but a sadist always sticks around to watch their prey suffer. She doesn't work like that, she wants attention more, and if her prey is suffering, she tends to disappear.

I'm pretty sure my diagnoses is dead on, because I've dealt with other narcissists in the past, though they were co-workers that I never cared to much about. One of them I made take a test a website http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personalit ... er_test.mv to see if I was right, and he scored high for narcissism. I'm good at spotting a narcissist, and I understand how they work to some extent. I know how to make a narcissist angry and paranoid and make them and go away, just disagree with them constantly. But I'd like to understand more. I'd like to understand how to strategically retain one, or make them come back, we can call it a science experiment, but really I just like this girl.

But I wonder why your are questioning whether she has been diagnosed, did something I say put questions in your mind as to whether she is really a narcissist. Plain and simple, she has no empathy, people are interchangeable to her, she doesn't want to know herself and has a lack of opinions as a result; she reacts to the exterior world and is not intrinsically driven. Also, she is extremely selfish. And she's definitely got the hunger for narcissistic supply, it's very obviously written on her face when I feed her the supply.

I'd still be open to any specific strategies that would help me to play the game that you say I don't want to play, but I do! Probably I'm a little crazy myself, but I'm no narcissist. I'm more of a normal-crazy.

^ lol, i really love folks like you. So, let me get me this right...

You're a self-pronounced expert at spotting Narcissists, you're capable of diagnosing Narcissists in moments despite the fact that it takes a well trained therapist months to do so, you're also an expert in knowing how to anger us (also assuming you know our general patterns of thinking), yet you need advice here on how to keep our attention and how to manipulate one of us?

Comon are you serious? Then if it works, you want to make a book out of it? If you really were that good you wouldn't be here now would you? You've already admitted you don't know how she thinks and, as one, I'm personally telling you your little schemes aren't going to work.

Now I'm curious...do you want advice out of some ill believed notion that you could keep her or are you doing this to stroke your own ego. Either way, is fine. Just be honest with us. If she is the real thing, you're going to lose. Listen to us on this one. When a psychopath and a MN is telling you stand-down, its probably for a good reason don't ya think?

Euler wrote:^ lol, i really love folks like you. So, let me get me this right...

You're a self-pronounced expert at spotting Narcissists, you're capable of diagnosing Narcissists in moments despite the fact that it takes a well trained therapist months to do so, you're also an expert in knowing how to anger us (also assuming you know our general patterns of thinking), yet you need advice here on how to keep our attention and how to manipulate one of us?

Comon are you serious? Then if it works, you want to make a book out of it? If you really were that good you wouldn't be here now would you? You've already admitted you don't know how she thinks and, as one, I'm personally telling you your little schemes aren't going to work.

Now I'm curious...do you want advice out of some ill believed notion that you could keep her or are you doing this to stroke your own ego. Either way, is fine. Just be honest with us. If she is the real thing, you're going to lose. Listen to us on this one. When a psychopath and a MN is telling you stand-down, its probably for a good reason don't ya think?

Okay, you're right. I'm not an expert. I don't know anything. I was just trying to say that I know this girl is a narcissist, and that she is the real thing. Maybe I'm going to loose, but I want to try. I should also say that I'm a masochist, so when she thinks she's hurting me, I like it. The only thing I don't like when she disappears or doesn't want to see me for a period of time, so I'm trying to understand how to lure her, and what kind of drama it would take.
So to answer your question, yes I want advice out of the believed notion that I could make it last for as long as possible, and maybe forever. To lose is not an option for me. I will do what it takes. I will plant bugs on her if necessary, I will move into the house next to hers if necessary. I will join the same company that she works if necessary. I'm possessed not lose on this one. I know I'm crazy! So if you wanna help a crazy man like me that is determined, Just give me your best advice to retain her for the long-term? What challenges I can pose to her? What drama I can introduce to her? What specific things would make a narcissist girl coming back to the same person for more? That's all I wanna know! And any help would be greatly appreciated. But I'm not gonna give up or drop her.

I should also add, if you don't know a way for me to retain a narcissist girl, then that's fine, just say it. But I thought you people were the experts on narcissism, so maybe you know, or maybe you don't know, because you think it's impossible. Life is short and I can die any day, and I think nothing is impossible. I'm gonna try. I hope you give me solid advice, but I'm taking into account that you people might not have the answers. I thought big posters of her on my wall was a cool idea though.

okay, cool.

Show her some boundaries...just enough to make it fun for her, like she needs to fight you but completely cave in whenever she's serious about anything. Remember, if she's the real thing you really don't exist. You're like her arm. If she disappears for a week or so, that's natural and nothing personal and its only a brief cool down period (in our untreated view; that supply chasing is hard work by the way). If she cheats on you (and she probably will) just sit at home like nothing happened. Every now and then do your own thing so she has to re-conquer you, remember that! We like to win above all else. Never show serious affection or expect any in return. That's a big no-no, in fact its a nightmare so don't go there. If she sulks than comfort her, of course its not sincere, she just wants supply. When she gets it, don't be surprised or upset if she gets up and leaves to do something or someone else because her mood is drastically better. Again, you have no right to boundaries or feelings. Just to keep it interesting pick a fight with her every now and then about something small, let her rage at you, then apologize for weeks. That way, you kept it fun for her and she gets even more supply from you. One more thing, about the rage you better get used to it. Its going to happen.

That's probably your best method of keeping her semi long term. Even then, she'll probably grow bored of you and move on. Assuming of course, that she's the real thing.

Now, why your such a masochist is beyond logic. Just remember that you're a door mat. If you forget the above stated lessons, you can look at the victims posts and do exactly what they did before "coming too". Why you'd be willing to do this to yourself is beyond me?

Euler wrote:okay, cool.

Show her some boundaries...just enough to make it fun for her, like she needs to fight you but completely cave in whenever she's serious about anything. Remember, if she's the real thing you really don't exist. You're like her arm. If she disappears for a week or so, that's natural and nothing personal and its only a brief cool down period (in our untreated view; that supply chasing is hard work by the way). If she cheats on you (and she probably will) just sit at home like nothing happened. Every now and then do your own thing so she has to re-conquer you, remember that! We like to win above all else. Never show serious affection or expect any in return. That's a big no-no, in fact its a nightmare so don't go there. If she sulks than comfort her, of course its not sincere, she just wants supply. When she gets it, don't be surprised or upset if she gets up and leaves to do something or someone else because her mood is drastically better. Again, you have no right to boundaries or feelings. Just to keep it interesting pick a fight with her every now and then about something small, let her rage at you, then apologize for weeks. That way, you kept it fun for her and she gets even more supply from you. One more thing, about the rage you better get used to it. Its going to happen.

That's probably your best method of keeping her semi long term. Even then, she'll probably grow bored of you and move on. Assuming of course, that she's the real thing.

Now, why your such a masochist is beyond logic. Just remember that you're a door mat. If you forget the above stated lessons, you can look at the victims posts and do exactly what they did before "coming too". Why you'd be willing to do this to yourself is beyond me?

That sounds like some real advice. Yeah, she's the real thing, I don't understand why you keep saying that. Hmmmm. As for the rage, I'm looking forward to the rage, the rage is what I enjoy most. I actually wish she'd rage at me all the time. Any advice on what I can do to make her rage at me more for longer periods?

(shakes head)...

about the rage, just act like your human self. It'll come...Good luck, I think?

Euler wrote:(shakes head)...

about the rage, just act like your human self. It'll come...Good luck, I think?

Problem is I'm crazy myself. Not a narcissist, just normal-crazy.

masoguy -

I did initially think that you wanted to know the implications of wowing a narcissist. However, it looks like you need "dating" advice

So, let me say that each dating situation is different. I don't know your girl and your situation to say what exactly you need to say to her. You wanted some examples and so I will give you some general ones based on the steps I outlined in my first post -

1. First, you "tease" her ego with small challenges and then "intermittently" praise her. The "praise" has to be just a little bit less than the challenge, so that she comes back for more. Don't let her regain her balance at any time. Keep her off-centre.

Ok, so when you meet your girl next time, remind yourself that you DON'T need her. Whatever she says, don't try and follow and answer it. Give your point of view by twisting it and introducing some fun in it. Example -

Your girl says - I really like intelligent men.
You DON'T say - Yes, intelligence is the most important thing.. blah, blah ( and then try to prove you are intelligent)
You say - Wow (with a wicked smile), most women seem to say they like intelligent men. I wonder though, what unique kind of intelligence they look for. I for example, like women who are socially intelligent. (but then you need to be able to back it up later with more arguments if the need arises)

Now, what the above example does is the following -
1. It cuts through her superficial blabbering. It puts her in the position of being ordinary unless she explains herself better. Its a challenge you are inciting her to.
2. It tells her you have an opinion and you are not simply accepting her crap.
3. It tells her you know and that she needs to respect you.

Now, you don't need to keep doing this. After sometime, give her some credit.

She says - I think of intelligence as... (and tells you her crap)
You say - Oh, that's cool. (and with a smile) Not many women get that (and a wink) and then you add something more to it, very casually.

So without fawning over her, you give your opinion and also some credit to her. Its a balance that you need to keep. In one of your posts you mentioned how she hates being praised since she thinks its false. Well sure she will, unless you create a situation for delivering that praise. You can't appear to be obliged to praise her. You have to be completely apathetic and the challenge and the praise have to be delivered with complete nonchalance.

2. Then when she is coming close to you, push back with a really "sad" sob story about your life (it can be a lie, but believable), and then challenge her to "save" you. Just when she showers all her love to "save" you poor baby, you praise her again subtly and indirectly, but just a little less than the challenge of your sob story. (This is emotional manipulation) Again just leave enough for her to not be able to sleep at night and keep scheming how to show her love the next day. She must not be able to sleep at night and keep thinking about you. Keep her sleepless.

Ok, many people don't get the idea of a "sob" story and don't know how to use it to manipulate people. But it can easily be done. Again its delivered with tact. You need to create a "sob" story that essentially says - I have this huge goal in front of me and I am working towards it, but its difficult to find people who can be part of MY journey. Now this implies that you don't think she is up to that task, which is very valuable to you. If you deliver it right, she will not be able to see through it and will fall for it and try and be that woman who will "add value to your journey".

Its not just with narcissists, all insecure women who shore up their self-esteem through others seek to "add value" to their partner's life and are attracted to this challenge. The idea for a sob story is not for you to appear pathetic, but to indirectly show your value. Don't cook up a false story. Twist the facts in a true story.

Make her a part of your journey. Let her invest in you, but don't invest too much on her. The person who invests more in someone else will find it difficult to get out of the relationship and will keep investing more in the hope of getting returns.

3. Test her again and again. Give her small challenges and then give her some praise as a gift. (Again emotional manipulation). Keep the drama going. The drama should never end, or else it will get boring. Keep her in constant anxiety.

As long as you can keep things interesting with challenges like in the examples above, you can test her with small challenges and rewarding her inadequately. This will keep her hooked proportional to her investment.

Don't press her on anything. Remember you don't need her. She needs to NEED you. So don't become jealous or controlling of her time. If she is a narcissist, you can turn her narcissism against her by out-narc-ing her. But that is only if you don't play her game, but make her play YOUR game. Some rules -

1. DON'T do what the narcissist expects from you most of the time, but do that intermittently. DO what you want to do most of the time. Its YOUR game she has to play. DON'T play her game.

2. DON'T try to make her happy. YOU be happy. But give her the hope of being happy.

3. Remain calm and detached.

4. Provide intermittent interesting supply. Before it gets boring either shore up the interest or if you are on the verge of failing, walk away before she realizes.

As for the rage, I'm looking forward to the rage, the rage is what I enjoy most. I actually wish she'd rage at me all the time. Any advice on what I can do to make her rage at me more for longer periods?

What do you mean you enjoy it? Do you find it amusing?

Problem is I'm crazy myself. Not a narcissist, just normal-crazy.

There is nothing like normal-crazy. You are either disordered or you are merely propping yourself up by pretending to be different, which you are not.

I should also add, if you don't know a way for me to retain a narcissist girl, then that's fine, just say it. But I thought you people were the experts on narcissism, so maybe you know, or maybe you don't know, because you think it's impossible... I hope you give me solid advice, but I'm taking into account that you people might not have the answers.

Put such challenges up to your girl. Such challenges will have no effect on disordered people on the forum, unless you learn to subtly deliver it. People can see through this lol. (Each of us who are replying to you are merely amusing ourselves since your thread itself is amusing and has no real place in a support forum.)

By the way, what have you done so far to act up on the general advice given to you?

The girlfriend is actually sounding quite healthy, relatively speaking

what a fun read.