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Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

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Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby emma » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:12 pm

I can't free myself from the feeling that it's something with ME that make guys devalue me. It hurts so much, and I really need to find out what it is and do what I can to turn this around...

Boyfriend 1 - whom I started dating when I was 18 and he 21:
- Shy loner type, always knew best, would ridicule others. Suspicious, "morally superior", chauvinistic. (I was like a needy puppy - can understand it annoyed him.)
- Either very warm and loving, or cold and dismissive. Could be so happy he was crying because he "loved me so deeply".
- Would pick fights in a passive-aggressive, sneaky nasty way, and deny it. Especially right before important events such as my birthday, and then punish me by not showing up, not answering his phone, etc.
- Would deliberately hurt me and then claim he "didn't mean it that way". Would accuse me of "having the potential of cheating on him" (I felt so ugly I didn't even look at other guys)
- Dumped me for the last time when I was on vacation, because he heared the voice of another guy in the background. Later regrettet it, but I didn't take him back.
- Laughed coldly and refused to help me when my new BF almost killed me, because he was having fun at a party (I was running around in the forest to get away from him and needed help)
- Still can't understand why I won't be friends with him or "meet him and see what happens". If we're at the same bar (once a year when I'm in my hometown), makes out with other girls while trying to make sure I see it. (I don't care - DON'T want him back.)

Boyfriend 2:
- Extrovert, charming, dynamic, popular.
- In short: Either intensely hated me, intensely loved me, or seemed depressed (when he was in some sort of drama with girls he claimed to hate).
- Would "invest" in me; make huge plans for the future, buy me clothes, show me to the world, seemed a little obsessed about how others percieved us. Called me 10 times a day and always needed to keep track of where I was and what I was doing.
- Bad mouthed his Ex. Always compared me to her - I was either a 100 times better or a 100 times worse.
- The first time I withdrew a little because of his intensity: Got raging mad, drove like a maniac, threatened to kill us both, ruin my reputation and my life. Then, all of a sudden, could suddenly be just as loving and feel sorry for what he did - if I promised not to leave him. (I think I was in a state of shock for the rest of the relationship)
- Beat me up the first time I put my foot firmly down and "demanded" that he talked to me about what was bothering him instead of creating all sorts of drama. Lied to the police and hit himself to appear as the abused one.
- Had NO limits, would stop at nothing to get it HIS way.
- Got therapy, after ultimatums from me, but it only made him manipulate in a less obvious way.
- We dated for a year after that but I knew I had to break up because it was eating me up what he had done to me. He made my life a living hell again, followed me everywhere, threatened to kill me, demanded that I payed him back for everything he had given me, ruined my reputation --- until I was a wreck. I tried so hard to stay strong but finally agreed to meet him, slept with him (and he seemed to finally "get it" and be in touch with himself) - then dumped me the next day and moved in with a 20 year old, and really rubbed it in how happy he was now and how he would never treat her the way he treated me because he loved her so much and had never loved me. Then started sexually harrassing me, to the point where I had to tell her just to make him stop (involving the police would mean more hell), and agan threatening to kill me because I was "hurting her".

Boyfriend 3, after many years of PTSD++ and therapy:
- Seemed shy and neurotic, but would quickly shift into a charismatic persona.
- Always had to decide where and when to meet.
- Pushed for committment, said I was the only one. Maybe got a little frustrated because I was so careful?
- Would suddenly turn nasty and come with small mean spirited comments about my body or weight (I'm SLIM, so I thought he was joking - or testing me).
- Had a long-term girlfriend the whole time (sharing an apartment in another country), denied it, then got mad, ignored me for days (I thought I was being paranoid so I apologized - and he immediately turned super nice again), then - weeks later when I still wanted to know what was going on, denied denied denied until I pretended I already knew everything - then he admitted everything and freaked out as if I was super creepy who knew stuff about him that he hadn't told me, then he wanted to assure himself of my feelings for him (!!!) - the next day with stupid manipulative explanations on e-mail and asking for "time to figure out what to do", be nasty and mean when we saw each other on the street, be even nastier when we met for "closure", run after me and feel bad when I gave up and walked away, later pretended to go through some kind of difficult process and end up choosing me. Had in reality not broken up with his gf at all, had several other affairs as well, and when I found out it was first more nasty comments about my looks and my worth to him, then an sms with "change of plans, bye", and he never talked to me again - except from letting me know how incredibly happy he was now - and that he never says mean things to his girlfriend (like he did to me), because he loves HER so much, while I was nothing - he just THOUGHT I was. Explains everything SO WELL afterwards that I don't know what to believe.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby Smacster » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:01 pm

Nothing, besides being slightly self-deprecatory, which was the quality in you that probably attracted all of these guys in the first place. Down to earth.

Obviously I don't know you, but from this post it appears that you have dated 3 douchebags. End of story I suppose.

Edit: BTW - You were diagnosed with PTSD. I know from personal experience PTSD people tend to infuriate me, as I see them as pitiful/weak (qualities in myself that I avoid at all times, so I project extremely strong standards onto others associated with me), and then pounce on them while they are being pitiful/weak to try to snap them out of it and fire up their engines. However, 9/10 this leads to them being even more pitiful and weak, then I feel like I abused them, which I cannot handle, so my anger is again placed on them. This is one example of a devaluation.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby emma » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:35 pm

Smacster wrote:Nothing, besides being slightly self-deprecatory, which was the quality in you that probably attracted all of these guys in the first place. Down to earth.

Obviously I don't know you, but from this post it appears that you have dated 3 douchebags. End of story I suppose.

Edit: BTW - You were diagnosed with PTSD. I know from personal experience PTSD people tend to infuriate me, as I see them as pitiful/weak (qualities in myself that I avoid at all times, so I project extremely strong standards onto others associated with me), and then pounce on them while they are being pitiful/weak to try to snap them out of it and fire up their engines. However, 9/10 this leads to them being even more pitiful and weak, then I feel like I abused them, which I cannot handle, so my anger is again placed on them. This is one example of a devaluation.


Then why did the last two devalue me when I showed STRENGTH and were clear about MY standards?
Boyfriend #3 even saw me as a strong person... and he would melt completely when I started crying (which I did once or twice).

And why avoid avoid avoid when my engines ARE fired up?

Is being a good person who care about other people and tries to be fair a weakness in your eyes (though initially a reason to idealize?) ? If there is one common denominator of the gf's of Ex2 and Ex3, it would be that they only seem to care about how they treat THEM, and not other women... and they seem to believe everything they say.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby Smacster » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:53 pm

emma wrote:Then why did the last two devalue me when I showed STRENGTH and were clear about MY standards?
Boyfriend #3 even saw me as a strong person... and he would melt completely when I started crying (which I did once or twice).


Probably has something to do with your body language, or gestures that you make, I don't know you so I can't tell you.

The last two guys were abject dickheads. You got involved with some very messed up guys.

emma wrote:And why avoid avoid avoid when my engines ARE fired up?


Snapping you out of a funk and arguing with you are separate issues. I will fire up your engines to snap you out of a funk, but take the high road if you *are* fired up.

emma wrote:Is being a good person who care about other people and tries to be fair a weakness in your eyes (though initially a reason to idealize?)


Yes. To both parts (it is a reason to idealize, but it's simply not practical and doesn't serve your own best interests, and after awhile it becomes cumbersome)
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby up_north » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:39 pm

emma wrote: Then why did the last two devalue me when I showed STRENGTH and were clear about MY standards?
Boyfriend #3 even saw me as a strong person... and he would melt completely when I started crying (which I did once or twice).


I'm talking about this from my experience. You're mentioning your standards, and you sound like a really strong intelligent person, however when you talk about the relationships you mention for one of the guys "the first time he beat me up" and for the other that he chose you instead of her.

Maybe it's time to have a look at potential red flags in relationships? So that next time you can walk away earlier? I've made a lot of bad choices, with the last guy he shoved me around, threatened to kill me. But he was aggressive to someone else the first time we had a date, and once "joked" about how he'd never hit a woman but how he felt like it with me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt (everyone says how nice I am), however he liked to tell me how strong I was unlike other women, but not sure I believe him.

I can't date at the moment, as I'm aware I could make another bad choice (I went out with someone else who led a double-life, another who cheated constantly, another who verbally abused me and 2 alcoholics). Now I'm no saint, however the last one could have really hurt me. So have started reading-up.

There's a book I've read called: How to Spot a Dangerous Man, it's helpful to make me realise that there are things I should look out for. Another blog called "getting past your past" has a book to go with it and also helps. It's about working on you and your life.

I had a lot of therapy, but though it helped me in some ways it wasn't right, I've now started seeing another one, which is useful.I think you need to shop around. I'm also going to join support groups as there is a lot of alcoholism in my family, I'm generally used to craziness (some of my own) and that needs to change.


emma wrote: Is being a good person who care about other people and tries to be fair a weakness in your eyes (though initially a reason to idealize?) ? If there is one common denominator of the gf's of Ex2 and Ex3, it would be that they only seem to care about how they treat THEM, and not other women... and they seem to believe everything they say.


Some people pick-up on certain traits (this doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you) but I've had this happen to me. If you start reading-up on things, getting another therapist (was the last one tough with you??) then it can help with that.

Dont' worry about the new gfs, they'll go through what you did, sooner or later, think about yourself. The blog getting past your past is really good (well it's worked for me) as a starting point. Good luck.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby a_little_broken » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:31 am

emma wrote: Laughed coldly and refused to help me when my new BF almost killed me, because he was having fun at a party (I was running around in the forest to get away from him and needed help)
- Still can't understand why I won't be friends with him or "meet him and see what happens". If we're at the same bar (once a year when I'm in my hometown), makes out with other girls while trying to make sure I see it. (I don't care - DON'T want him back.


So you'd finally ended a destructive relationship, gotten yourself into yet another and then called abuser no 1. for help with abuser no 2.?! Why would he believe you when you say you you can't be friends, but still look to him to rescue you in times of trouble? Why on earth was he the one you called?

Don't get me wrong, each of them is responsible for their own abusive behaviour. I suspect though that to a degree you enable their behaviour. For starters you keep going back for more. When you tell an abuser that their behaviour is unacceptable but still go back to them after something as extreme as them trying to kill you, your actions speak much louder than your words. Your actions tell them that no matter how extreme their behaviour, they'll be in the dog house for a while but eventually you'll forgive anything. Every single relationship you describe had a point where either their behaviour was extreme enough for you to call it quits, or you rebelled enough that they rejected you, and in each instance you ended up going back for more. Don't make idle threats!

It seems as if you choose the types of men that need to establish control:
1- Mr always knows best - lap up his wisdom and let him make the important decisions and all will be pleasant, form your own dissenting opinion and all hell will break loose.
2 - Mr Fixit - he will invest in you, improve you, make you worthy of showing off, to do this efficiently he needs to have control. Fail to comply with the idealised persona he's trying to create for you and you go from being an endearing fixer-upper to something defective that either needs to be demolished and rebuilt from scratch or simply discarded and replaced.
3 - The Cheat - control is essential for him to have any hope of maintaining his web of deception, even after he's busted he'll tell whatever lies he needs to to recreate his harem. He'll either tell you that you're the one he chose, or worse try to convince you that you don't deserve to be the only one.

You described them all as both adoring and hating you. If the adoration is something you crave, you're going to keep gravitating towards that kind of passion and that's a coin that will always have two sides.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby sfguy » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:13 pm

emma wrote: Then why did the last two devalue me when I showed STRENGTH and were clear about MY standards?


Weak women are easy to devalue. Dating them doesn't prove anything. Dating a strong girl creates a challenge, because if you can dominate her and tear her down, it hugely inflates the narcissist's ego.

emma wrote:WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Dating men like that.

Oh, and you're crazy if you think you're the only one they devalue. I can't believe you think that.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby Phoenixrising81704 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:06 pm

Why is this on a NPD board? Someone has to ask..

Narc's arnt the only people that devalue.. even "normals" do it to.

You wound up with guys that don't value you because you don't value yourself.
Because here the victims become the monsters and need the help.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby up_north » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:44 am

Phoenixrising81704 wrote:Why is this on a NPD board? Someone has to ask..

Narc's arnt the only people that devalue.. even "normals" do it to.

You wound up with guys that don't value you because you don't value yourself.


It's on an NPD board because it ties-in with the traits of NPD individuals, they discard and devalue.

That's not just an observation, but if you have NPD or are involved with someone who has it then it goes with the territory. If someone fits the DSM criteria of believing they are special then it follow they discard (which also fits in with the haughty behaviour characteristics).

Yes, "normals" do it, but not habitually. And that's what a personality disorder is. It's entrenched. It's part of the reason why it can be difficult to diagnose... we all exhibit some of the behaviour some of the time.

And yes, I'm sure most people who are with narcs don't value themselves. Speaking for me in the past, if I was with a "normal" I usually didn't know what to do as I had my own issues.

That's why I was either with people with PDs or others who had traits (and I had a fair few going on myself). Others may disagree, but those who constantly devalued me were either personality disordered or bullies. And I was nuts in my own way... so yes, I didn't value myself, but that's why I was with people with PDs.
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Re: Why do I get devalued and not the other gf's?

Postby sfguy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:36 am

Move to Lake Wobegone, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.

Because everywhere else, there are a lot of below-average people who objectively should be recognized as such.
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