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Narcissists and IQ

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Narcissists and IQ

Postby Integerian » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:12 pm

I know that NPD bares no mark on intelligence one way or the other. That being the case I find it so odd that a narcissist could have an IQ of 150 but have an emotional IQ of a child. You would think that someone brilliant enough to have a 150 IQ would be able to feel empathy. Even higher mammals like apes and elephants show signs of ability to feel empathy. Any thoughts?
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Postby Optimist77 » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:33 pm

Intelligence is the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience.

From my personal experience, Narcs are highly intelligent the as far as abstract thinking, comprehension manipulation is concerned.

However, they fail miserable to take into account their own mistakes and change the course of their own life.

Their talent is waisted on petty manipulative nonsense. A true genious of creation and immediate destruction.

I do not think that IQ has actually has anything to do with Narcissisms. Some people are clever, some are not.

Intelligence has no bearing on Empathy.

You might want to rephrase your question.
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Postby Dan » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:09 am

Take my 9 year old sons WII from him. He has an IQ of 130. You will get your answer from him.
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Postby Optimist77 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:54 pm

NObody's Jo wrote:

Empathy most assuredly has bearing upon intelligence.

Jo,

I do not agree with you.

Lack of empathy - low emotional IQ. I agree.

But, Pervasive Intelligence, abstract thinking, the ability to connect events, effect and predicting counter-effect is not tangential to empathy. If empathy influences rational thinking, the clarity of thought is obscured by prejudice. Our own judgement loses clarity when sympathy, empathy is exercised.

Although thoughts of humanistic nature are very appealing, they are not necessarily influenced by reality, facts that intuitively can be altered, misconstrued.

In other words, does a jury pass the sentence based on his/her intuitive feelings with regard to guilt or innocence?
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Narcissists and IQ

Postby mindful » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:12 pm

Jo wrote:
And a narc most definately doesn't "get" someone when they are attempting to transmit warmth, kindness, appeal to their higher sense of self , discuss grief, sharing feelings with them.


This is where I get stuck. Both Ns in my life seem (yes, I'm quite sure they're N's) to have genuine, albeit momentary, responses to genuine kindness.

No, it's not empathy, or desire to understand my feelings.

Nor am I talking about the manipulations to get their way.

But it's a softening, a gratitude, a sharing of a kind energy, when it comes their way. and I still have a hard time accepting that it's just acting.

And I suppose it's what keeps me suckered. Am I just a sucker?
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Postby Optimist77 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:19 pm

NObody's Jo wrote:
And a narc most definately doesn't "get" someone when they are attempting to transmit warmth, kindness, appeal to their higher sense of self , discuss grief, sharing feelings with them.

Certainly not because they lack in intelligence. But perhaps because their intelligence is hindered because of lack of empathy.


I think that it depends on how we define intelligence, and for what purpose we need to use it for.

Let's take astronomy, physics, where the interactions are between inanimate objects. (for the sake of this example) What a Narc could deduce from planetary constellations, chemical reactions etc, could be proof for a higher IQ.

Interestingly my NP has a real intuitive sense with animals for example. She has a sixth sense when it comes to dog training or interacting with animals.

It is almost the only communication channel where she is 99% effective. Human communication and understanding is another story.

However, I have realised that it is not LACK of EMPATHY, but rather the LACK OF EXPRESSING empathy that applies. It seems that she actually understands how I feel, but she will not act upon the option to express it.

When an old lady trips in a shopping mall, with all her carrier bags, there are always a few people who choose to come to her aid. Some walk by, but do not help. Why? They surely have empathy, but choose not to help.

On a final note, we can argue that if Narcs possessed higher IQ values, and understood the implications of their self destructive behavior, (which they most probably do) their intelligence would enable them to find a "cure" for the disorder. Neither Sam Vankin, nor any other semi-rehabilitated Narc has come up with a real solution yet. Diabetes, Alcoholism, and drug addiction can be treated. Narcissism cannot.

Are the lacking basic intelligence??
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Postby Leviathan » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:04 pm

IQ has nothing to do with Empathy. Psychopaths like Edmund Kemper are an example of this. He was exceptionally intelligent yet had no empathy whatsoever. Many people with AS are also extremely intelligent (Einstein may have had AS) yet lack empathy.

Optimist77 typed :

On a final note, we can argue that if Narcs possessed higher IQ values, and understood the implications of their self destructive behavior, (which they most probably do) their intelligence would enable them to find a "cure" for the disorder.


The majority of them don't believe they have anything wrong with them. It is nothing to do with intelligence but more to do with how they perceive the world.
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Postby Optimist77 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:15 pm

Mindful,

I know that feeling! When I express my wish, or desire, or something that I would like, she sometimes reacts with that "softening gratitude" which we interpret as"empathy". It's difficult for her, but it has happened a few times.
However, after a few minutes her actions cancel out all that I experienced in that fleeting moment.

She did not get it. Actually, she did, but it did not go any further.
Narcs live for the moment. It is not possible to carry the same thought in a linear fashion and develop it further.
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Postby Dan » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:43 am

Dan wrote:

Take my 9 year old sons WII from him. He has an IQ of 130. You will get your answer from him.


Let me clarify the meaning of my own post. He is smart and will act like a child. If he becomes a Narc, he will act like a child.
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Postby Optimist77 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:10 am

NObody's Jo wrote:

And Optimist77 has an incredible loss occuring this way of a best friend...i have a really hard time even listening to the reality of that story...how outrageous that a friend would come to help him and then simply take over the wife. Its almost barbarian, you know?

l.


A friend of mine said that it may be the best thing that has ever happened. Let them tear each other apart! Narc with a Narc.

I shall look for happy and outgoing NS with encapsulated appendicitis.
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