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Art and PDs

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Re: Art and PDs

Postby realityhere » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm

@Shanzik,

Not all artists are tortured souls with PDs. Some artists go with themes that resonate with them or help sell their work. And some can be somewhat narcissistic, but not to the point of being disordered, because they possess more of a talent than others and they know it. Talent is but only one part of artistry, it takes a lot of hard work and persistence to get recognized for one's creativity. Humility is not a strong point among artists, because they've had to sweat hard to get where they are and have had to put up with ppl wanting a slice of the artist's pie. Artists have to develop thick skins, because as sure as the sun rises, there's always gonna be somebody criticizing his work.

Some pwNPD want the recognition and creative reputation but don't really work for it. Big difference.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Midwinter » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:47 pm

Quoth wrote:I tend to agree with Akuma on this one.

I would also say that the unempathic nature of NPD and in particular AsPD mean that these PDs will be counterproductive to artistic creativity. They will also likely be incapable of objectively assessing their own work. Criticism will obviously be an issue for the NPDs.

I don't know how BPD and SPD would effect creativity though they would certainly effect the individuals ability to manage their career as an artist.


I do it because everyone likes my poems.

You can write as an NPD when you're angry or ever feel unvalidated.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Akuma » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:54 pm

Shanzik wrote:For god's sake. You're really determined to persuade me I "don't have a normal thought process". I really think I only have a moderate PTSD from my narcissistic ex, and that is all.

All Reznor's lyrics are CLEARLY about his NPD, it can't be any more obvious.
https://genius.com/albums/Nine-inch-nai ... ard-spiral


Well you clearly dont, as you are convinced you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder you are obsessed with by interpreting their lyrics and not realizing how crazy this is.

As to PDs, restrictions in creative expression, ambition, persnal goalsetting etc. are pretty standard for both NPD and BPD. But yea, why care about basic information, when you have self-centered delusions, right.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby julllia » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:57 pm

they are good at charming and manipulating people.could they be good at words to deceive others while not mean it?
or just people with low self esteem are attracted to them?
you could theoretically have talent in writting while you are an asshole in real life. that doesn’t mean what he says.
is difficult for me to understand the contradition but lacking empathy doesn`t really mean you couldn’t write good.does it?
i think they have emotions just they do not care about others but only about their emotions.maybe.
i also wonder can how can someone spd or with aspergers write poems,is it possible if they have problems with reading between the lines.
but weirdly a lot of people with spd seem to be artists too.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Akuma » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:04 pm

julllia wrote:they are good at charming and manipulating people.could they be good at words to deceive others while not mean it?


I see the basic issue somewhere else. Just imagine a person being totally requiring admiration and perfect mirroring trying to advance as an artist. Hours of practicing every day, endless bad outputs, critical judgements by people, having to accept the views of your managers, the visions of the companies that employ you... you would have to have a pretty optimal and extremely rare type of NPD to be able to keep up with that logn enough to actually become a star.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Shanzik » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:19 pm

Well you clearly dont, as you are convinced you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder you are obsessed with by interpreting their lyrics and not realizing how crazy this is.


I said I think they have a PD in my original post, I'm aware I'm not a professional. There's nothing more intimate and personal than thoughts written down in a novel or a poem, I wouldn't dismiss it just like that. Still, I didn't try to diagnose anyone "officially".

As to PDs, restrictions in creative expression, ambition, persnal goalsetting etc. are pretty standard for both NPD and BPD. But yea, why care about basic information, when you have self-centered delusions, right.


My experience tells me completely the opposite. I am, however, talking about high-functioning, highly intelligent pwPDs. They are extremely good at creative expression, isn't that what NPD for example, is all about? Creating False self, an illusion, a persona that doesn't really exist? Lies are nothing but storytelling, creating what doesn't exist, making the world more bearable. I think that's exactly what art is all about.

@Midwinter, would you dare sharing one of your poems? :)
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Midwinter » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:42 pm

Akuma wrote:
julllia wrote:they are good at charming and manipulating people.could they be good at words to deceive others while not mean it?


I see the basic issue somewhere else. Just imagine a person being totally requiring admiration and perfect mirroring trying to advance as an artist. Hours of practicing every day, endless bad outputs, critical judgements by people, having to accept the views of your managers, the visions of the companies that employ you... you would have to have a pretty optimal and extremely rare type of NPD to be able to keep up with that logn enough to actually become a star.


It depends on where you find your audience Akuma. I use about 5 minutes on my poems, and get admired and validated for them always. It's like I am naturally gifted. I'm sure going after it as a career wouldn't help pwNPD much. Furthermore, most artists doesn't become a star.

@Midwinter, would you dare sharing one of your poems? :)


Will share one later.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby mark1958 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 pm

Is it really about PD and Art, or simply someone who is familiar with suffering that makes them good?
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Shanzik » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:10 pm

julllia wrote:is difficult for me to understand the contradition but lacking empathy doesn`t really mean you couldn’t write good.does it?
i think they have emotions just they do not care about others but only about their emotions.maybe.



I think lack of empathy is not an issue when writing e.g. a poem, or a short story with small number of characters, or no characters at all. But it might become a weakness if you wanted to write a play or a novel filled with numerous perspectives and different personalities. I don't think small forms require much empathy. And I also think people with NPD/ASPD don't lack emotion, just emotion towards others. They usually write/paint about themselves and their inner turmoil.
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Re: Art and PDs

Postby Akuma » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Shanzik wrote:I said I think they have a PD in my original post, I'm aware I'm not a professional. There's nothing more intimate and personal than thoughts written down in a novel or a poem, I wouldn't dismiss it just like that. Still, I didn't try to diagnose anyone "officially".
My experience tells me completely the opposite. I am, however, talking about high-functioning, highly intelligent pwPDs. They are extremely good at creative expression, isn't that what NPD for example, is all about? Creating False self, an illusion, a persona that doesn't really exist? Lies are nothing but storytelling, creating what doesn't exist, making the world more bearable. I think that's exactly what art is all about.


If they are intimate and personal then that would require the person to be aware of their disorder. I havent seen any of those artists you mentioned having ever talked about their NPD. If its supposedly "hidden" in there, that is just your interpretation and I dismiss that as unfounded. If theyre making up stories though, then these are describing unreal things and using them to figure out if the people have NPD is ridiculous. So your way out of this is arguing that making up stories is an essential part of NPD.
Thats some dreamworld youre living in.
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