Projecting

I have seen, on various sites, that the use of "projection" is felt to be one of the most common defenses (along with denial and rationalization). It is posited that just about everyone engages in it. At least at various times.

In terms of "seeing' things in others, it has been suggested that it is due to our own emotional blind spots. In other words we can only see something in others, that we ourselves possess. And we can not see in others, what we ourselves do not possess.

that doesn’t make sense though.someone who is not evil, is unable to see anyone as evil?
nons are unable to see narcissism in others?
i do not think that everyone is a narcissist,but often i find customers with narcissiatic traits for example,or when i meet someone that i suspect.i wonder if it has to do anything with me that i notice it.
my parents shifted the blame and i didn’t know what to believe.i didn’t have empathy for them?or they didn’t have for me?was i the cruel one or they were.i was a child so i guess they started it lol.i learned it from them.

but the truth is when someone (like me or with pd)says i do not trust anyone means you can not trust him etc
what he thinks about other people in general shows who he is. and i read you may even can see who is disordered from this.
i think you can trust me but maybe not.i am not sure lol.maybe i will see you as a threat and lose empathy,or become egotistical

You see in others what you are actively denying in yourself.

Especially if there's 'heat' behind your feelings. That is, it really gets to you.

When that happens, check yourself. You might just find...

Or, if you can't see yourself well, ask trusted others if they see *whatever* in you.

Great post and I'm glad to hear everyone being open about it!

From a non perspective... yes I believe everyone projects. It's normal. It gets out of whack in a personality disorder.

I think when I was BPD a lot of the distrust and fear of abandonment came from me projecting my internal states into others.

As a non I know I'll still project sometimes. I try to just be aware of it (the same way you all are discussing monitoring your thoughts). I do think it's very very hard to catch in the moment.

julllia wrote:that doesn’t make sense though.someone who is not evil, is unable to see anyone as evil?
nons are unable to see narcissism in others?

I agree with your general point here. It doesn't make sense as yes we can see things in others which we don't possess ourselves. It's called cognitive empathy I guess or just simple observation. Though in a way it's kinda interesting as cognitive empathy is basically 'perspective shifting' so in that sense you would have those traits or thoughts in you for a time at least. But it doesnt actually have to be your traits to do that, obviously.

There are tv shows and movies made exploring the idea of losing onself when you take analysing another too far or rather not just simply analysing and observing from detached point but rather using perspective shifting to get into their head in order to gain more understanding for their analysis. For example the cop trying to get into the criminal's head and the whole relationship between the two enemies in the cat and mouse trying to predict each other's next move by trying to understand each other is basically an archetype.

So it's interesting in a sense. But no you can definitely understand someone without being that way yourself. A lot of people do seem to be rather lacking in cognitive empathy but I mean it's not that bad a situation that you can't see examples of people doing it all the time or most people are capable of such even if they don't exercising it. I'm talking in general, but actually I've read that pwNPD have in tact cognitive empathy anyway, and I think it's often very good actually in a lot of cases or at least that's what I thought. It kinda seems like that is being forgotten in this thread along with the above point about understanding people in general. Just because some could use projection (well like anyone) obviously doesn't mean they use it all the time or all neccessarily use it notably or much. Yeah some seem to use it a lot as a defense so it probably stands out but that's not neccessarily case as we're all different and it's not a requirement. I'm not trying to figure out if I use projection just because I have NPD but just because it's interesting in general. Of course when someone with NPD does use projection then it's usually very useful and interesting to consider it within that context to help explain why they are doing it and understand etc.

xlostintranslationx wrote:the times when my suppressed anger gets out of control and I go off on someone and then only realise afterwards I went out of control and regret it. But I can't think of much projection there. I just go over the top and start raising my voice or laying into someone randomly because they angered me in the moment.

I don't actually usually 'lay into people' (that would be rare as I usually avoid it instead like people I don't like) really that's misleading. I don't know why I said it like that. I think it's more just the way I say things like it's obvious I'm angry, rather than what I say. I think that's why I can't tell at the time I've gone too far because I'm just thinking that what I'm saying makes sense but in actual fact I'm acting angry and it's obvious. Like by my tone of voice etc. Then straight afterward I'll realise. It's annoying because I hate losing control. I mean sometimes I can be wrong too and then I'll realise that too afterwards once I've thought about it but I just mean I'm sometimes wrong as much as I can be just normally, as in not to do with the anger but rather just a silly mistake or not understanding something properly which could happen anytime. I can definitely get more carried away though especially if I don't understand something I'll ask questions to someone because I genuinely want to understand but as I'm very angry too it just comes across as very confrontational and I only realise afterward. That's usually what happens with what I was trying to describe. Anyway this is off topic and I'm talking to myself like a diary.

Random question: is there such a thing as projecting positive traits?

perejil wrote:Random question: is there such a thing as projecting positive traits?

Yes.
http://www.melanie-klein-trust.org.uk/projective-identification

xlostintranslationx wrote:I agree with your general point here. It doesn't make sense as yes we can see things in others which we don't possess ourselves. It's called cognitive empathy I guess or just simple observation. Though in a way it's kinda interesting as cognitive empathy is basically 'perspective shifting' so in that sense you would have those traits or thoughts in you for a time at least. But it doesnt actually have to be your traits to do that, obviously.

This is just my mental sausage here.....

When I first came across this passage, and it was written by Psychiatrists, I struggled with this as well. But now, I am not so sure. Just because we do not act on our impulses (those who can control this of course), does not mean we do not possess those things. Just because some of us may recognize behavior as "wrong" does not mean we ourselves are not capable of such behavior.

When I/we recognize these things in someone who may have a Personality Disorder, am I not acknowledging that I know these thoughts, feelings, and impulses? What separates someone who has a PD from someone who does not? In terms of humanity, we all are similar/same except for extremes. Or the ability to control/regulate thoughts/feelings/ and behavior.

I have also seen that to be selfish, or self-focused is our human default mode. Because we have a natural desire to survive. So we will take care of our needs. So, when we see this in others, how can we deny we possess this? People who wear the badge of altruism, are often the most selfish in terms of what they truly want to receive for their giving.

Can we all agree that humans are capable of both extreme horrors and genuine acts of altruism and kindness? How do we explain this dichotomy? How are we able to even recognize the difference if we do not "know" these things? If someone tried to hurt my family, am I capable of stopping them? You bet!

So possessing these traits and acting on them are two different things. I do agree though, that we "deny" our own stuff but easily see it others. Many posters come into this forum regarding fractured relationships and have a whole list of things that he/she did because they are a suspected Narcissist. And how many forum members here have been able to see through all of that? Quite a few.

like children that are innocent and believe noone wants to harm them. that is what innocence means.

if someone says for example "i do not believe in love."i often saw in aspd forum saying they do not believe love as power and that love is weak and violence is better. it means he is unable to love or doesn't have it himself. i often wondered wtf i find love more powerful than something else and got unsure and confused that maybe it isn't. it just shows that they haven't experienced it as a feeling.
if you think others plot against you,it means you plot against them probably too.

maybe is something you haven't experienced. like i was talking with someone superficially and i said some people are bad/evil and unable to empathize. and he was unable to understand that. he literally believed that deep down everyone empathized and would decide to do some good in the end. maybe it just means he is more innocent .but i bet he would claim that i am more innocent and naive than him.
so projection confuses me..