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Depression and/or boredom

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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby narc_magnet » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:13 am

I think it's important for therapists to challenge their patients - how else do you make progress?

But for a therapist to challenge a patient effectively there has to be some measure of trust and rapport established first.
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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby Après L Orage » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:33 am

whichway wrote:Wendy calls it empathic confrontation and bookends it with positive statements.


True.

narc_magnet wrote:I think it's important for therapists to challenge their patients - how else do you make progress?

But for a therapist to challenge a patient effectively there has to be some measure of trust and rapport established first.


True.

Something I've noticed about myself in therapy is that I was trying to find fault with my therapists as a way to distract myself from the point they were trying to make.

Now, looking back, I realize that they weren't flawless guys but their flaws weren't the reason why I overlooked whatever point they were making but rather an excuse not to dig into my pain. And I'm thinking, surely I am not the only one!
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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby Gomba13 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:20 am

narc_magnet wrote:I think it's important for therapists to challenge their patients - how else do you make progress?

But for a therapist to challenge a patient effectively there has to be some measure of trust and rapport established first.

Yes, thank you, that is exactly it. Therapy is about change. Changing implies that you are not as good now as you could, should or wish to be. So yes, it means you get your balls squished at least a little. There has got to be confrontation.

The mistake some therapists make is to zip through or literally skip the part before the confrontation, the part where trust is established. If your client doesn't trust you, of course they will not see the point of you squishing their balls, feel violated, see you as the enemy and bail! This should be stressed especially with pathological narcissists in therapy: they already are so hard to bring to therapy and notorious for dropping out far too soon. Even an exemplary therapist has a hard time keeping them and getting through to them.

If you cannot communicate to your client something as basic as the fact that you are on their side, how will you manage to tell them about the nasty things about themselves they would rather never hear? And then, you still have to help them change that! Some therapists seem to have magical thinking...

Also, it would seem based on testimonials of pathological narcissists who have been to therapy that the majority of therapists provide supply, either on purpose to gain trust or unawares after being manipulated into it by the narc. A therapist deliberately providing supply is wrong in so many ways, I will not even get into that. But a therapist being gullible enough to be manipulated into it really should not take on pathological narcissists.
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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby Après L Orage » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:00 pm

Gomba13 wrote:Also, it would seem based on testimonials of pathological narcissists who have been to therapy that the majority of therapists provide supply


Sometimes, pwNPD mistake positive feedback for supply. Deep down, and despite the seeming entitlement, there is a belief that one is not worthy of this positive feedback. So instead of using it as some form of positive reinforcement, and internalizing it as soothing self-reassurance, it is immediately reinvested in reinforcing the ("grandiose") self-image instead, i.e. supply.
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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby narc_magnet » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Gomba13 wrote:If you cannot communicate to your client something as basic as the fact that you are on their side, how will you manage to tell them about the nasty things about themselves they would rather never hear?

This is critical for providing feedback in general, but to a pwNPD in particular. I need to believe you're on my side. Otherwise it's too threatening, I can't open myself up to receive what you're telling me.

It's possible that the marriage counselor had important observations to share and maybe I could've learned something. Although, I still maintain that 3 sessions isn't enough to establish that kind of trust and provide critical feedback. We knew each other for less than 3 hours when she burst out with, "You are the problem, not him!". Asking guiding questions and digging deeper would have been more appropriate. I didn't feel like she was on my side so I experienced the feedback as an attack. Really, who wouldn't experience that as an attack? There was nothing constructive in her approach.

I will admit that I did not see myself as the problem. I still don't, although signs are starting to point more in my direction lol. But I would've stayed in marriage counseling longer and talked it through if I felt it was safe for me.
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Re: Depression and/or boredom

Postby Après L Orage » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:11 am

narc_magnet wrote:I will admit that I did not see myself as the problem. I still don't, although signs are starting to point more in my direction lol. But I would've stayed in marriage counseling longer and talked it through if I felt it was safe for me.


Makes sense.
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