Our partner

What if a person really is worthless?

Narcissistic Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

What if a person really is worthless?

Postby wodienjong » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:33 pm

Lets say a person sucked at everything they did their whole life. Perhaps they had cognitive problems or something of the sort. They were also socially rejected their entire life and ridiculed constantly. Would it be normal for such a person to develop a sort of "vulnerable narcissist" personality later in life even if they did not have an ingrained narcissistic personality from childhood? Covert narcissism is rooted in the person feeling worthless and needing praise and recognition to validate themselves. Well, if a person really has no reason to feel they have worth, wouldn't it be normal for them to develop a hypersensitivity to failure and a need for validation? In this case, could it be something that can be cured by a sufficient amount of validation to the point where a person realizes their worth?
wodienjong
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:35 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby NimplyDinply » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:57 pm

They would probably be Avoidant, not Narcissistic.

You're not a narcissist btw.
what a tangled web we unweave, when we practice to just be
User avatar
NimplyDinply
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2040
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:11 am
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby NimplyDinply » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:22 pm

Take a look at this article: http://psychology.about.com/od/theories ... cneeds.htm

Neurotic people (those with PDs, codependents, certain anxiety disorders, etc) were not accepted AS IS when they were younger and tend to go on to develop neurotic compulsions and "needs". Most people high on Neuroticism will identify with a few of these, I know I did.

The N was also not accepted AS IS when they were younger. Their innate self was disapproved of in favor of a parents own narcissistic need for admiration. Ns tended to be raised to be "perfect" to glorify the parent/s. Their emotions were not nurtured and they were probably invalidated a lot as children (like most other PDs) but selfishly overtly praised at the same time. This is abuse, just not the "classic" kind, although the classic kind can be on top of these sort of gross boundary violations.

I could be wrong with the above, this is just what I suspect.

It seems to me that the children that were more classically abused or shunned, the scapegoats or whatever, would be more likely to develop BPD or ASPD.
what a tangled web we unweave, when we practice to just be
User avatar
NimplyDinply
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2040
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:11 am
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby wodienjong » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:33 pm

NimplyDinply wrote:Take a look at this article: http://psychology.about.com/od/theories ... cneeds.htm

Neurotic people (those with PDs, codependents, certain anxiety disorders, etc) were not accepted AS IS when they were younger and tend to go on to develop neurotic compulsions and "needs". Most people high on Neuroticism will identify with a few of these, I know I did.

The N was also not accepted AS IS when they were younger. Their innate self was disapproved of in favor of a parents own narcissistic need for admiration. Ns tended to be raised to be "perfect" to glorify the parent/s. Their emotions were not nurtured and they were probably invalidated a lot as children (like most other PDs) but selfishly overtly praised at the same time. This is abuse, just not the "classic" kind, although the classic kind can be on top of these sort of gross boundary violations.

I could be wrong with the above, this is just what I suspect.

It seems to me that the children that were more classically abused or shunned, the scapegoats or whatever, would be more likely to develop BPD or ASPD.


Actually, I was valued by my parents, although there were times where my mom would get angry and be abusive. It was in school though that I was shunned and ridiculed by everyone.
wodienjong
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:35 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby Philonoe » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:45 am

wodienjong wrote:Lets say a person sucked at everything they did their whole life. Perhaps they had cognitive problems or something of the sort. They were also socially rejected their entire life and ridiculed constantly. Would it be normal for such a person to develop a sort of "vulnerable narcissist" personality later in life even if they did not have an ingrained narcissistic personality from childhood? Covert narcissism is rooted in the person feeling worthless and needing praise and recognition to validate themselves. Well, if a person really has no reason to feel they have worth, wouldn't it be normal for them to develop a hypersensitivity to failure and a need for validation?


I think that narcissistic injuries, like losing job or partner for instance, can happen in everyone, and can lead to narcissistic issues. People need to prove own value or become easily offended in those moments.

In this case, could it be something that can be cured by a sufficient amount of validation to the point where a person realizes their worth?


Personally (but it might be very personal) I think that validation, whatever big amount it is, can be counterproductive.

Because it comes from outside.

I think selfsecurity has to come from inside.

If a child makes supernice sandcastle, he is happy, can show it to others, can play with it. If parent says : "wow, your sandcastle is wonderful, you are the best little boy of the world, nobody can make nicer sandcastle, etc", they kind of steal the pleasure.

(not that they cannot say that they like it, of course)

For me, better realize that you are able to build things in reality, with or without external validation.
Philonoe
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:32 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby wodienjong » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:56 pm

Philonoe wrote:If a child makes supernice sandcastle, he is happy, can show it to others, can play with it. If parent says : "wow, your sandcastle is wonderful, you are the best little boy of the world, nobody can make nicer sandcastle, etc", they kind of steal the pleasure.


Interesting, because that is basically the type of thing my mom would say. Are you saying that this causes a person to be dependent on external validation for their self esteem?
wodienjong
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:35 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby Philonoe » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:58 pm

Yes I think so.
Philonoe
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2341
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:32 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby wodienjong » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:30 pm

However, lets say a person is seeking validation by trying to live up to personal standards they have, which do not really depend on recognition by others. For example, mastering a martial art or becoming a skilled hacker. Would those things still be considered external validation? Would true self security be feeling like you have worth despite not being good at anything or would it have to come from some sense of personal achievement?
wodienjong
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:35 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby Anais » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:28 am

I think your original question tells us a lot about the people you've known in your life. It's a big clue for you. Because those people were toxic.

I am about to tell you an amazing thing! Most people don't treat others badly. They don't rank or rate them. They don't ridicule them. They smile and say, hello, nice weather we're having! And they MEAN it too. As someone said on here recently, you're not a narcissist. But your family might have been disordered, I think.
Anais
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:47 pm
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if a person really is worthless?

Postby TheVoidissuffering » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:45 am

#1 and most importantly there is no cure for Narcissism because it is not a disease its a psycho-dynamic a deeply ingrained feeling.
secondly what you said made sense. but i believe ultimately society inadvertently conditions narcissism because its has rigid rules of what we should be. which can change at any given moment so maybe if one is born earlier then the rules and expectations are different thus a different idea of what constitutes worthlessness.

all that considered however the expectations ones care giver place on them plays the biggest role.
and the worst part is that often times these expectations come in the form of "love". i put quotes because most parents that Heep expectations on the child do so because they actually care however from the childs perspective this isn't always understood. so if the child isn't able to live up to them he/she may become a Narcissist.and at the same time if the care giver becomes frustrated in the process this can further perpetuate this effect.
TheVoidissuffering
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:45 am
Local time: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:11 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Narcissistic Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests