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Self deception.

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Self deception.

Postby bitty » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:00 pm

I've cut and pasted my reply below from another thread, rather than attempt to derail that one. So anyway :-

I think that npd is unlike any other disorder, in that unaware narcissists deceive themselves to such a great extent. I find that degree of self denial remarkable, yet it's only occasionally mentioned, almost in passing. To me, that self deception should be up there with a lack of empathy, as one of narcissism's defining features, yet it doesn't appear on any of those lists of criteria.

The idea that we can be oblivious to our actual selves for much of our lives (to such an extent) is very interesting to me. I mean no disrespect to fellow narcissists, by the way, in talking about self deception. My therapist told me that it was an unconscious defence mechanism, and that if I'd been aware of it, it wouldn't have worked.

Does anyone else find this aspect of narcissism as unusual as I do?

P.s., I did start a similar thread a while ago, but that one was related specifically to unacknowledged hostility.
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Re: Self deception.

Postby creative_nothing » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:23 pm

Ok, I've found your thread.

Yes, I agree that self-deception is strongly linkened to narcissism;

However I believe it is not used as a hallmark of NPD because it is shared with other PDs, the psycopath and to an even greater extent the paranoid;
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Re: Self deception.

Postby wodienjong » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:26 pm

When you say self-deception, do you mean the grandiose image they have of themselves? So then would this apply to a covert narcissism who doesn't have that grandiose image?
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Re: Self deception.

Postby creative_nothing » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:38 pm

wodienjong wrote:When you say self-deception, do you mean the grandiose image they have of themselves? So then would this apply to a covert narcissism who doesn't have that grandiose image?


This is a kind of self-deception. But shifting responsabilities is another. And at this point, we can say psycopaths can be even worse.

I remeber a thread at ASPD forum where the poster was complaing somethin along the lines "my grandma left the money unprotected how was she supposed to think I was not going to steal it?" :lol:
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Re: Self deception.

Postby wodienjong » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:44 pm

creative_nothing wrote:
wodienjong wrote:When you say self-deception, do you mean the grandiose image they have of themselves? So then would this apply to a covert narcissism who doesn't have that grandiose image?


This is a kind of self-deception. But shifting responsabilities is another. And at this point, we can say psycopaths can be even worse.

I remeber a thread at ASPD forum where the poster was complaing somethin along the lines "my grandma left the money unprotected how was she supposed to think I was not going to steal it?" :lol:


Ah ok, so you mean blaming others for your own mistakes.

But where this gets tricky is, if psychopathy/NPD behavior is something that these people can't control, does it really make sense to blame themselves? Technically, nobody is really responsible for what genes and brain structure they have, that would be nature.
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Re: Self deception.

Postby NimplyDinply » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:56 pm

wodienjong wrote:
creative_nothing wrote:
wodienjong wrote:When you say self-deception, do you mean the grandiose image they have of themselves? So then would this apply to a covert narcissism who doesn't have that grandiose image?


This is a kind of self-deception. But shifting responsabilities is another. And at this point, we can say psycopaths can be even worse.

I remeber a thread at ASPD forum where the poster was complaing somethin along the lines "my grandma left the money unprotected how was she supposed to think I was not going to steal it?" :lol:


Ah ok, so you mean blaming others for your own mistakes.

But where this gets tricky is, if psychopathy/NPD behavior is something that these people can't control, does it really make sense to blame themselves? Technically, nobody is really responsible for what genes and brain structure they have, that would be nature.


Yeah but it's especially not the fault of the person/people the blame is usually being projected onto either.

Anyway I think we mostly have a choice as to the behaviours we conduct ourselves in.
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Re: Self deception.

Postby madjoe » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:49 pm

i cannot decive myself
i'm born with a analitical, sceptical mind
i think it is the mark of a predator
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Re: Self deception.

Postby TheLord » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:51 pm

I agree with this, self deception is should also be in DSM. I have seen it happening live many times with my father and N GFs
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Re: Self deception.

Postby madjoe » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:20 pm

TheLord wrote:I agree with this, self deception is should also be in DSM. I have seen it happening live many times with my father and N GFs


yeah right they need more things in there
never forget that being a homa was in the dsm
it's all CRAP (some times the best system is also crap)
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Re: Self deception.

Postby bitty » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:30 pm

creative_nothing wrote:Ok, I've found your thread.

Yes, I agree that self-deception is strongly linkened to narcissism;

However I believe it is not used as a hallmark of NPD because it is shared with other PDs, the psycopath and to an even greater extent the paranoid;

The paranoid, yes, I can see that. But as lolidk said in the original thread that I 'jumped across from', psycopaths know what they're doing, whereas narcissists seem to need to see themselves in a good light, and disguise their motives from themselves. I used to see myself as someone who occasionally lapsed into an untypical, intense anger, and was unemotional, but pretty harmless.

wodienjong wrote:When you say self-deception, do you mean the grandiose image they have of themselves? So then would this apply to a covert narcissism who doesn't have that grandiose image?

No, I wasn't talking about grandiosity, I don't have much of that either. I 'just' mean that, when I was unaware, I had no idea of how hurtful I'd been to people. Or rather, I had a limited idea sometimes, but not of the degree to which I'd treated people like that. More broadly, I had no idea about myself. I knew that my public and private personas didn't match, but I just couldn't figure myself out.
TheLord wrote:I agree with this, self deception is should also be in DSM. I have seen it happening live many times with my father and N GFs

Yes; I still find it hard to believe that, until a few years ago, I had no idea how I'd treated people.
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