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The relationship between NPD and BPD.

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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Harkness » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:31 pm

Callalily wrote:
Harkness wrote:If my ex had come to me and told me everything you just said, it would alleviate my paranoia and I'd take her back.


Really you're not just saying that? 'Cause I swear to god I've been trying to write that email for three days and I keep erasing it because I get scared and second guess myself. Like, 'What if he doesn't want me back,' or 'What if he's so mad at me for leaving in the first place he'll never forgive me,' or 'What if he thinks it's a trick to manipulate him into taking me back' or something.

He also is very paranoid and doesn't believe so much of what I say, like he thinks I am messing with him all the time or something, but I swear to god I am not lying about this, this is how I feel. I mean I'm borderline and my feelings change a lot but this is one of the few that does not change.

Okay it's just an email and if he says no it won't be the end of the world. I'll survive, right? Thanks Harkness.


I don't know how he will respond, but I know that what you wrote is everything I would need to hear. A big part of narcissism is insecurity. I was paranoid with my ex and thought she was messing with me too, so I can relate to him. It would have fixed a lot if she sent me what you just wrote.
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Kiskiskis » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:41 pm

Callilaly
I wrote all about that insecurity issue to a certain person. But it didn't help. Although I'm sure that it was something crucial.
But if something is bothering you, it's better to be said.
Forget about your self-respect and be vulnerable.
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Pennylanes1 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:15 pm

He won't care if he is really an Npd unless he truly values you and if he did you wouldn't e posting on here, he'll just see it as your issue, your fears I abandonment have nothing to do with him and he will count it as a win and treat you worse because you just admitted your emotional vulnerability to him. If you want a narc you have to be needy so you give him the attention and validation he needs but independent enough to walk away so he's afraid of losing you or the supply.

It's a fine line to walk but a narc will only behave himsel if he sees you perfectly autonomous without him or if he's afraid of you.

He'll just take the dependency as supply and then use you as an object that belongs to him. It's how he's wired.
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Kiskiskis » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:19 pm

Pennylanes1 wrote:He won't care if he is really an Npd

I refuse to play the game and calculating, if I have something to say, I'll say it. It makes no difference if they have NPD. I can make the decisions for my own good. But the words remain!
Being vulnerable and free-spoken, doesnt mean you are weak. IMO putting yourself out there is a strength.
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Pennylanes1 » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:32 pm

I agree with you and under normal circumstances out if yourself out there is to be applauded and encouraged. But as a severe bpd, I would be walking into the lions den because if he abuses or hurts me further since he'll know I'm emotionally dependent on him, I won't be able to walk away. If someone ignores me I will cling. It's so stupid ( not everyone but the few who have a hold on me. Most people sor nons will treat that attachment with respect and care because they know that love is a gift but a narc feels entitled and will abuse that love)
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby Pennylanes1 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:30 am

I've told my n how I felt he sees it as overwhelming and maudlin hogwash because remember they dont feel the same way nons do, never mind the emotional intensity of a bpd.

The other ridiculously callous comment was " go write that in your diary" in the meanest childish tone. If I had written that stuff to a non they would have held my hand and hugged me or cried, they wouldn't even have to return my affection. They would wait for it...hold it empathize.

LOL, it's the nature of the beast. Accept it. Don't ask for love from someone who will laugh and reject you. Take Ns for who they are. They're not monsters unless you let them be. Set your limits and keep your distance.

Save your emotional outpours about your feelings and vulnerabilities for people who care.
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Re: The relationship between NPD and BPD.

Postby tuesdays_child » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:39 pm

Callalily wrote:Here's my two cents.

I think the reasons these relationships tend to work out badly is that, although in some respects they seem to have a lot in common, BPs and NPs actually don't understand each other very well.

[Okay and some of what follows is me guessing about how it feels to be an NP, 'cause I seriously don't understand it, which is the whole point of this post, really. Please tell me if I'm way off base.]

[Also, sorry, I can't use "pwNPD" 'cuz it looks way too much like "pwnd" for me, so I'ma just stick with "NP."]

Assuming the NP is not malignant or sadistic, I believe he genuinely cares about the BP. But he cares about people the way he cares about things. He takes good care of the things he values. So the way he expresses affection for her is by trying to take care of her. Among his strengths are the ability to plan carefully and to act coolly and rationally. He sees that the BP is sometimes lost and directionless because of her emotional lability. Since he does not have that problem (and since, well, he's a narcissist) he believes he knows what is best for her, and so he shows affection for her by giving the kindest gift he can: his guidance and wisdom.

What he doesn't realize is that, for her, this feels like being put in a cage. She does not want to be controlled or told what to do. She doesn't trust anyone enough to let them control her, and when they do try to control her she assumes their intentions are bad. It feels like an invasion of her personal space, so she will fight him tooth & nail when he tries to do this. He doesn't understand why she is rejecting his gifts, and thinks she must be intentionally frustrating him.

On the flip side, the BP is proud of her empathy and her ability to understand people. That she can sense and be sensitive to others' needs may be one of the few things she really likes about herself. She desperately wants someone to "see who she really is," to understand and accept her for her strengths and weaknesses alike. So she assumes this is what the NP wants. Like the NP, she is giving the thing she values most in herself, which is emotional insight. She doesn't realize that the NP despises that insight just as much as she detests his efforts at ownership. For him, being "understood" is an effort at control, and deeply insulting.

So, like the NP, she is left hurt and confused, wondering "Why did he reject this gift which is the most valuable thing I know how to give?"

Neither party is evil. Both have good intentions, and indeed, they have a lot in common. But they end up driving each other insane because their approaches to the world are fundamentally different.



I've been skulking this forum for a while, and this is perhaps the single best post on this topic I've read. Kudos.

I had no idea I was BPD until recently diagnosed, and only so because I went to therapy to deal with a breakup with an NPD. Lord, what an eye-opener it's been.

The funny thing is, I don't hate him now that I've been reading up on the dynamic. Sure, he did some shady things. But, in retrospect, so did I -- albeit in vastly different ways. It was a roller-coaster of a ride. And in the end, he was as lovely to me as he could have been during the better part of our relationship. Lord knows I made it difficult. But so did he. It is what it is.

I love this NPD forum, more so than the BPD forum. It's been insightful in the extreme, from all posters, regardless of disorder.
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