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Covert narcissism

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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby addx » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:05 am

Depending on how aware/ignorant he is. He's basicly a kind of a split personality of a kind. He has two perspectives, kinda master-slave. But if his awareness and rationality and some kind of basic integrity exists he can decide to use them the best he can to produce a character that is acting mostly good IMO. I'm just trying to figure it out. I can't really say that I'm an example for everyone.

People are constantly relating to what I say, NoNs that live or have addictive relationships with narcs and covert narcs. This has been constant over the months. So I'm seeing something in it now. I don't really know if I'll be able to fix myself more than I have whatever that means. So I don't know really know the answer to your question. I am a person who everyone thinks is too good. I'm the only one who thinks I'm bad. Including my own wife. Who I consider to have abused. And I have, she just doesn't understand it, but I actually explained it to her. So, I dunno, if I'm just able to empathize and understand all these people her but am different, or am I just like them, I like to think the second because I see that these people want to connect to the world just like me, they're just having trouble with the narcissistic cognitive dissonance created through overconditioning.

I can't really understand how overt NPD is formed except through lack of fear meaning some degree of psychopathy. I know this will not sit will, but I can't explain the innate entitlement other than lack of fear, opposite of the covert narcs unentitlement from his abundance of fears.

I often can explain overt NPD behavior very precisely but I can't exhibit it. I just understand it at least some of it
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Esquire » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:22 am

addx wrote:I can't really understand how overt NPD is formed except through lack of fear meaning some degree of psychopathy. I know this will not sit will, but I can't explain the innate entitlement other than lack of fear, opposite of the covert narcs unentitlement from his abundance of fears.


I think you might be onto something. I believe there is a greater relationship between Narcissism and Psychopathy than either Narcissists or Psychopaths want to admit.

As I've said before, the Narcissist is the spoiled house cat who demands what he wants or penalizes you by pulling away his love or clawing. The Psychopath is a mountain lion searching for prey. The Psychopath views the Narcissist as soft, weak, and using his perfectly good traits of lack of empathy and amorality on things like a self-image. The Narcissist views the Psychopath as primitive and a bit scary. But ultimately both animals are felines. They also both attract the same types of partners and vulnerable people. Some people bounce between relationships with Narcissists and Psychopaths for much of their lives.

I used to think that all Narcissists were basically afraid of everything. But I think that I might have confused fear with paranoia. The two are different. All Narcissists are paranoid. But overt Narcissists demonstrate a striking lack of fear in certain situations. An overt Somatic Narcissist who sleeps with hundreds of women, some without protection, some who are married, etc, is not demonstrating a lack of fear. He's demonstrating that he doesn't fear things that the average person would fear. The same could be said for an overt Cerebral Narcissist who has a profession that requires him to wield power, because wielding power means making certain people unhappy, angry, or incensed at your decisions that negatively impact them. Someone full of fear wouldn't be able to do those things without worrying about the consequences.

So it's possible that overt Narcissists share a certain trait in common with Psychopaths in which they underestimate the negative possible consequences of their actions. It's also likely that Narcissists seem so much more neurotic than Psychopaths though due to their paranoia, which Psychopaths do not seem to share.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Anais » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:31 am

VirginiaEsquire wrote:So it's possible that overt Narcissists share a certain trait in common with Psychopaths in which they underestimate the negative possible consequences of their actions.


Interesting. What are your thoughts on how either react, when bad things/consequences DO happen? Esp. overt narcs
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Esquire » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:38 am

Anais wrote:
VirginiaEsquire wrote:So it's possible that overt Narcissists share a certain trait in common with Psychopaths in which they underestimate the negative possible consequences of their actions.


Interesting. What are your thoughts on how either react, when bad things/consequences DO happen? Esp. overt narcs


Full range of Narcissistic defenses come out most definitely. Including self-pity, playing the victim/martyr, gaslighting, blame-shifting, etc. But the main thing I think is that they go into damage control mode. I have to agree with Sven in another thread who once said that when the Narcissist ends up in jail, he tries his best to be a model prisoner. If I were in jail, I would try to make friends with the warden to get special treatment, similar to that guy in Shawshank Redemption - lol.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Anais » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:03 am

Or you might have to be someone's bitch!!!

If I was in jail I would want to go to solitary confinement. Bonus = no voice-overs by Morgan Freeman.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby katana » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:34 am

tribeofone wrote:
The legality dimension is not really that important, it's the "common moral standards of the time and locality to which the person belongs" that counts.


In that case I'm a delinquent :mrgreen:


That would make being a delinquent something to be proud of :lol:

Anais wrote:Just wanted to be another one to say... not pathetic. Nope, not pathetic at all.


Put it this way - people work how people work. If you took a computer and programmed it every day, telling it to sit on the sofa and cry into its beer (lol) would you come back and yell at it about being a victim? I know people aren't literally computers, but childhood does a certain amount to "programme" human beings, people respond in different ways sometimes, but everyone responds in some way.

Its not logical for that to be pathetic. Its also not beneficial to allow yourself to feel responding to thos things is pathetic, i.e. its not worth it, because in the end you'll be the one who loses out on life and suffers as a result. I know logic like that might not shift emotionally engrained issues but it does at least show how I approach those kind of issues and through that what I think of the facts, whatever that might be worth.

I know I probably sound like a computer myself but try to look past the weird explanation to what I mean, lol.

VirginiaEsquire wrote:I used to think that all Narcissists were basically afraid of everything. But I think that I might have confused fear with paranoia. The two are different. All Narcissists are paranoid. But overt Narcissists demonstrate a striking lack of fear in certain situations. An overt Somatic Narcissist who sleeps with hundreds of women, some without protection, some who are married, etc, is not demonstrating a lack of fear. He's demonstrating that he doesn't fear things that the average person would fear. The same could be said for an overt Cerebral Narcissist who has a profession that requires him to wield power, because wielding power means making certain people unhappy, angry, or incensed at your decisions that negatively impact them. Someone full of fear wouldn't be able to do those things without worrying about the consequences.


I think narcissism is an issue that doesn't pick and choose personalities and predispositions. I've met people of so many different types and morals who are clearly very narcissistic in how they relate to their selves and their morals, ideas, etc. It can also blind people of certain aspects of consequences or any need to worry if they feel they are absolutely right or absolutely better there's a sense of safety that tends to come with that kind of thinking.

Anais wrote:
If I was in jail I would want to go to solitary confinement. Bonus = no voice-overs by Morgan Freeman.


:lol:

Depending on the situation I guess I'd either keep my head down and try to get out fast or just get stuck in, lol. Its not on my current to do list though, lol.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Nightdrive » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:50 pm

addx wrote:But I feel the hardest part awaits. I have spent a while conversing with tribe and talked about my childhood and my parents and grandparents and I started to cry, it was tough..I cried several times today and it's so hard now. I let myself feel some emotions towards my childhood and things from the past and they overrun me, I know they're there now but there's so much it seems somehow, like a huge flood and a dam holding it... I feel like I'm just going to revert into a 2 year old. Or I'm just losing it.


I feel a similar way, addx. I asked my mother about my early childhood today, and she told me things that validate what you're saying in this thread. It also validated what I've said previously about having empathy towards children, about wanting to make them happy and protect their innocence. Now I understand why I feel that way.

The truth is I don't like being the way I am. I look at other people and am secretly bitterly jealous for their ability to experience genuine joy and happiness. I am never pleased for another's success. I remain alone, because I just can't deal with emotional intimacy. I am overwhelmingly cynical. Of course, all of this is internal. I wear my mask well, in person.

Admitting to such a weakness is very difficult for me. It feels like I'm setting a torch to the foundations of my entire being. I think I do have a lot of suppressed emotions from my childhood. But if I don't have access to memories of events that shaped my personality then I don't see how I'm supposed to deal with them.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby Anais » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:50 am

katana wrote:Its not logical for that to be pathetic. Its also not beneficial to allow yourself to feel responding to thos things is pathetic, i.e. its not worth it, because in the end you'll be the one who loses out on life and suffers as a result.


Good point, good way of saying that.

Depending on the situation I guess I'd either keep my head down and try to get out fast or just get stuck in, lol. Its not on my current to do list though, lol.


LOL! Me neither.
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby katana » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:16 am

LOL! Me neither.


Ah $#%^. Guess that's one more place I can't palm off that holiday promotion... lol
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Re: Covert narcissism

Postby addx » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:30 am

Something happened to me yesterday. It's been building for a while, I've been crying and tearing a lot lately.

Yesterday in bed my wife turned to other side, she was too hot and I just felt I resented it but I was already so defenceless I couldn't do anything about it, I turned to the other side and felt alone. I couldn't sleep, I felt bad I went to the other room to extinguish the bad emotion, I didn't want to resent my wife and just sat there and started to cry.

The dam opened up and I weeped and sobbed and cried and choked. I never cried like that in my life. I felt like I regressed into an infant, I could hardly utter a word from the weeping. After maybe 15-20 mins I realized that I can't stop and started to think of my wife if she'll hear me and come, but I couldn't really move or call her, it took me another 10 minutes to force myself somehow to get back to her, I was kinda stiff and couldn't really move that well. I woke her up, she was very scared when she saw me and then took another 15 minutes to calm down. I was afraid to fall asleep, I felt I was going to disappear instead of falling asleep, when it started happening I got so scared and got up so it doesn't happen. It took me a while to allow myself to sleep. I stripped naked together with my wife to get most skin contact, I find that comforting, and spooned to fall asleep.

I still feel so vulnerable, fragile, defenceless, lost, my eyes are tearing and there's something vague at the back of my mind I kinda feel threatening to cease my existance in some way, dunno.

I don't think I'll be on the forum, I'm not sure I can take it now or that I can be of any help to anyone like this.

I'm not sure if this is progress or am I about to meltdown... It feels like I'm about to meltdown either way...

Take care
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